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| Unleaded fuel in NSW Australia with 1... |
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paul zuljan
New member
Username: paulz
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2010 - 12:52 am: | 
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As of 20th June 2010 New South Wales has legislated that 10% of standard unleaded fuel must be ethanol. Does this have any repercussions for example a Simplex 4 stroke motor that uses unleaded fuel. Am I better off using premium unleaded.
Regards, PZ. |
Mark S
Senior Member
Username: marks
Post Number: 127
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2010 - 07:36 am: |
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Paul,
I wouldn't use ethanol blended fuel in anything except maybe a "hack" vehicle that was designed for it.
You are being "ripped off" for at least two reasons with ethanol blended petroleum fuel.
The first is "specific energy" of alcohol by volume is approx 50% of that of good petrol/gasoline. So you are only getting about 95% of the potential energy with a 10% ethanol blend compared to straight petrol because you need to burn nearly twice the volume of alcohol.
The second is the ethanol content is no good for seals, various alloys and the list goes on.
One other thing that I know is premium unleaded lasts a lot longer in storage(ie your fuel tank) several months compared to a few weeks for standard unleaded.
Alcohol fuels have their place. An example is racing applications where the lower burning temps of alcohol allow mods to gain higher power outputs. Drag racing and pure speed have alcohol classes.
I was over "straight" unleaded quite a while ago and even less impressed with the ethanol blend.
So yes IMHO you are much better off using premium unleaded unless your engine is specifically designed for it and the economics or price per litre makes sense.
Cheers,
Mark S. |
Todd Vidgen
Senior Member
Username: todd_vidgen
Post Number: 182
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2010 - 06:28 pm: |
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I run all my marine motors on premium,from
the two 454 big block chevs in the Bertram,to
my Simplex and Blaxland motors.
The increase in fuel cost is negligible when
running the little motors,and they do perform
better than on "regular"While it hurts a bit to
fill up the Berty (1368 ltrs)at approx $1.80/ltr
marina prices,we find that it also runs better
and slightly more economical.
I run an automotive and marine repair workshop
and have not seen an ethanol generated problem
for many years,in the early 90's you would get
problems with older vehicles that used rubber
components in their fuel systems like the diaphragm in the fuel pump,rubber fuel hoses,accelerator pump plungers etc,but with time
the repair kits have taken this into consideration
and changed the materials.The other thing ethanol
blended fuel does is clean out the fuel system,loosening all the scale and debris that accumulated in the fuel system,this in turn
manifested itself as fuel blockages.One fuel company (Bowen Petroleum,aka Bogas)had pamphlets
that said they would pay for the replacement of
fuel filters in the event of this happening.
I dont have a problem with ethanol fuel in general,in fact in California this was the only fuel you could buy,and GM America used to predeliver all new cars with it.But I would not
use it in a marine environment as it is hyrdroscopic and draws moisture from the surrounding environment,its also not good for fiberglass tanks etc.It does raise the octane rating of the fuel,and every year when they
had the car rally on the Central Coast many of
the teams would come to our service station
to fill up their fuel drums and race cars.
At one stage the CSIRO and NRMA borrowed 20
of our regular customers cars for 2 weeks to
do testing.I was never told of the exact results
But no one was shot or hung because of them,so
they cant of been too bad
Todd |
Murray Hopkins
Member
Username: murray_hopkins
Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2010 - 07:26 pm: |
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As Tod was saying it is great for cleaning out fuel systems.
I use E 10 on old metal boat and motorcycle fuel tanks, just fill the tank up, leave it for a week, empty it out and all the rust and scale comes out leaving a bright and shiny tank!
But you may not want all that junk in your carby. |
Paul Fannon
Member
Username: hookedup
Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 01:29 am: |
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Mark & Todd, are both right.
I will not use unleaded in any machine at all in fact.
Our new car, runs better on Prmium and is more economical, which offsets the higher fuel costs.
My old work van runs better on premium and is slightly better on economy.
I would Never use unleaded in any mixed fuel. Outboard. lawn mower, briush cutter, chainsaw, etc.
I never use unleaded for any thing at all for any reason.
Every now and then I go the next step and run some of the higher octane fuels in our machines and I regard this as a mini, Tune Up. Really cleans the system out.
I am a boat builder and small engine mechanic.
Paul. |
neil r jones
Senior Member
Username: senojn
Post Number: 56
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 02:33 am: |
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My understading is that Premium fuel (gas) in NSW is unleaded also , it just has a higher octane rating , so what are you putting in your tanks Paul F. ?
Additionally I cannot find any legislation on E 10 effective 20 June 2010 .
Otherwise I agree with the above . |
Paul Fannon
Member
Username: hookedup
Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 03:12 am: |
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Hi Neil,
I only use the premium fuel, because it has the higher octane rating also it will last longer sitting in a tank and especially in mixed fuel.
Yes it is still unleaded, but from my experience it is a far better option in every motor I have ever seen, since unleaded was introduced.
Higher initial cost for premium, but better performance and economy offset the cost and the cleaner engine running cuts down on repair problems.
Just my opinion, based on my own personal experience.
Paul. |
Mark S
Senior Member
Username: marks
Post Number: 129
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 06:56 am: |
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Neil,
The legislation, from memory, states that a certain percentage of overall, state of NSW, petroleum fuel sales must be ethanol by percentage. This is also true of diesel which now must have a certain percentage of vegetable oil.
There has been a lot of press about this lately.
So the majors are doing this with standard unleaded to meet this and also to gain a price/market advantage. So on a price basis only it is standard fuel that seems to be suffering. Of course there are a lot of people whom must use non ethanol blends i.e. premium.
My local Shell and Caltex stations are doing this. Standard unleaded in these stations is no longer available except as 10% ethanol blended.
The other thing I have noticed over the few weeks is that diesel now comes in standard and premium? I'm told the "new" standard is a vegetable oil blend, and the new premium is the old standard! I'm a little more amenable to this than ethanol, although the price for the premium diesel has gone up compared to the "old" standard!! My business has a number of diesel vehicles.
Cheers,
Mark S. |
Todd Vidgen
Senior Member
Username: todd_vidgen
Post Number: 184
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 05:59 pm: |
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Regardless of the fuels effects,once again one
state has to get out of step with all the others
in what is a purely politically driven agenda.
With little or no consultation with the various
people and industries involved.Bio diesel is not recommended in marine applications,so the commercial users have to use the "premium" at
greater cost,so up goes the price of fish etc.
I also wonder about the supply of ethanol being able to keep up with demand.Because when I was
running a Bogas brand service station in the mid 90's they could not keep up then.Dont forget that petrol isn't the only end use for this product,perfume,paint,solvents,food industry.
Will it go the same way as LPG/autogas and the price goes up when we are all "hooked".
This does rather have the markings of a poorly thought out plan.
Oh well I suppose the only constant in life is change.
Todd |
neil r jones
Senior Member
Username: senojn
Post Number: 57
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 09:15 pm: |
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Thank you Lads ,
An interesting discussion indeed!
In summary you might say avoid ethanol at all costs and use Premium unleaded at whatever cost !
Cheers
Neil |
Laurie Derwent
Advanced Member
Username: laurie_d
Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 09:28 pm: |
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I concur, I wonder how outboard fuel lines will go with the 10% ethanol unleaded? I suspect there will be lot's of unsuspecting folk out there! Meanwhile, what's the problem with biodiesel in marine engines? |
Todd Vidgen
Senior Member
Username: todd_vidgen
Post Number: 185
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 11:48 pm: |
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Firstly biodiesel has a very short tank life compared to normal diesel.
It has a tendency to grow bacteria faster.
So if you dont use the boat regularly and turn over the fuel and add fuel treatment,you will be spending quite a few dollars washing out tanks,
changing filters,cleaning injectors and pumps.
I have 2 diesel injector service companies who
I send pumps and injectors to for repair or service,and they will not warranty anything that has had biodiesel through it.
I recall reading an article in the "Afloat" magazine in the last six months that mentioned
several issues with bio fuels |
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