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Message |
    
Bruce Trappes
New member
Username: bruce_trappes
Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 02:49 am: | 
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I'm aware that Blaxlands run a mix ratio of 40:1, but I'm having difficulty translating that into mls/ltrs.
What "metric mix" are others running?
My maths went out the window when alzheimers started coming in :-( (pun only).
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of oil in preference to another?
I'm not asking for anyone to "can" any type of oil, but some oils mix better with "petrol" than others, & I'd like to know other users preferences/experiences. |
Brian Marriott
New member
Username: pdp8user
Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 03:23 am: |
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40:1 = 25ml/litre
As regards oil types - have a search in the Stuart Turner section of this site, there have been several discussions there. The consensus seems to be that you can't go far wrong with modern 2-stroke OUTBOARD oil (not chainsaw/mower oil) or with the classic SAE30 non-detergent (if you can find it).
Cheers
Brian |
Bruce Trappes
Member
Username: bruce_trappes
Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 05:45 am: |
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AHHHHHH!
Thanks Brian.
Actually I had come to the 25ml:1 litre answer, but I wasn't game to try it in the engine in case I seized it!
Many thanks:-)
I'm sure my manual says SAE50, but 30 grade sounds much better....perhaps the manual has a typo, or more likely it has been reproduced so many times the 30 looks like a 50.
I wasn't aware that modern outboard oil was acceptable......thought it may not have the right viscosity, but if that's what others are using, I'm happy to go down that path.
Once again....thanks for the info! |
Bruce Trappes
Member
Username: bruce_trappes
Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 05:56 am: |
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Another thought....
What oil goes into the sump if I'm using modern day outboard oil?
Just normal engine oil squirted through the carby intake? |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 21
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 06:08 am: |
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What oil goes into the sump?
None. That is why 2 stroke engines have oil in the fuel. There is a constant supply of oil circulating through the crankcase from the petrol mix.
Old instruction books may quote 50 oil, but oils have come a long way since then.
Eric |
Rod Gillespie
Member
Username: dougall
Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 03:09 pm: |
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Re oil. Some years ago Ray Paterson (who was involved in the manufacture of Blaxlands at the time.Now deceased) told me not to use 2 stroke oil as it burnt where as 40 oil did not burn as well and some found its way into the crankcase. This was needed to lubricate the main bearings as the fuel mix did not go near the mains as it does with an outboard etc. Castrol put out a straight 40 oil for Harley Davidson's. I use this. I put some of this oil petrol mix in a botle and even after some years thee was no sign of seperation. Hope this helps. Rod Gillespie, Burnett Heads, Queensland. |
Mark Stretch
Senior Member
Username: marks
Post Number: 88
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 06:51 pm: |
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I don't use the modern outboard oils. They are designed for different operating conditions than our old engines. I use Penrite Shelsey Medium in all of my engines both 2 and 4 stroke.
Cheers
Mark S. |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 12:10 am: |
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Sorry Mark, my friend, but Penrite would not agree with you! I looked up Shelsey on the web and found it to be a 4-stroke oil. So, I phoned Penrite for their opinion. I was told that it is definitely not designed for mixing with petrol. My view of it is that because old engines like a Blaxland are not even close to being highly stressed, any decent oil will probably work. Lawn mower grade 2-stroke oil should be quite suitable.
Further to Rod's information from Ray Paterson, I believe something has been confused in the retelling. I can't believe anyone would suggest not to use 2-stroke oil, because this was specially formulated for the job. Also, the bit about some oil finding its way into the crankcase doesn't fit with how a 2-stroke works. The first place the petrol-oil mixture goes IS the crankcase.
Looking at another forum recently, I saw contributors calling each other less-than-polite names. This is not my intention, to create hostilities. I like a good "argument" about a subject, not the writer. I am quite happy to hear contrary views to mine. Even when I know I'm right!!! |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 20
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 01:58 am: |
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Aub Rose says to use a good quality mono-grade oil. the B/C manual also says to use SAE 30 in ( metric conversion) 32:1 ratio in your petrol. I unfortunatley forgot all the other reasons he said normal 2 stroke oil is a no no. He also said at a pinch marine two stroke oils can be used but not for long. |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 02:28 am: |
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A problem I have is that if someone tells me something that sounds illogical, I am likely to challenge the statement and find the reason.
What eludes me in this discussion is, what's unique about Blaxland engines that they can't cope with 2-stroke oil? That really has me intrigued.
If every Blaxland or similar engine user is having no problems with 4-stroke oil that's good. I couldn't argue against that.
Eric |
Rod Gillespie
Member
Username: dougall
Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 02:54 am: |
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Eric has a point. A lot of people use 2 stroke oil and do not have any trouble. When I think back to my Viliers, Seagull and Vinco days we used Castrol XL in preference to 2 stroke oil as it was generally regarded as a better lubricant. The last time I rnag Castrol for advise I was told to use 2 stroke oil but as the person I was talking to did not have much idea about the motor I have always stuck to Ray Patterson's advise. If it works use it. My boat is used for mackeril fishing and trolling around rocks for cod etc. so the motor gets a work out and so far no trouble. Rod. |
Bruce Trappes
Member
Username: bruce_trappes
Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 03:35 am: |
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Seems as though I've opened a can of worms here, but it's an interesting topic.
Firstly Eric....
My Blaxland manual states that "A supply of oil in the sump/s (1/8 pint per sump) for the conrod to dip into and splash..."
I'm conversant with the operation of modern 2 stroke engines (used to be a motorcycle mechanic & roadracer), so I understand transfer ports and operation thereof etc.
I have come to the conclusion (and I may be wrong) that in "simple" 2 strokes such as the Blaxland, the 1/8th pint mentioned above would more or less stay in the sump as it would not vapourise overly much even with the intake of premixed fuel. What over time would dilute with the premix, would be minimal, and possibly be replenished by some of the oil in premix.
Just a theory, but I have a feeling that I'm atleast on the right track!
The "engine oil" Vs modern 2 stroke outboard oil debate....
Regarding running super outboard (or similar oil), my concern is the extremely low viscosity of this type of oil. I like the idea of being able to use it, but I think over time it may be detrimental to the engine.
Modern day outboards have such attributes as higher compression,chrome bores, molly bearings & teflon piston rings, roller & needle bearings etc, CDI ignition and possibly don't require the same degree of lubrication as an "old banger" with plain bearings.
I'm interested in reading other forum members views, but at present I feel that the mention of lawn mower fuel...again by Eric...is something worth considering.
After all the Victa mower engine is not far removed from the early Villiers engine which to my mind is not that far removed from the wonderfully simple Blaxland.
Other points of view...? |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 21
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 04:01 am: |
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I'll try and ring Aub Rose in the morning and see what he has to say. Will report tommorrow arvo. |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 04:48 am: |
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Well, I can't argue with the instruction book. Here I have to admit that although I have been a motor mechanic in the past, I have never looked inside a Chapman or Blaxland. No need for marine engines around here, it hasn't rained much for years!
As Malcolm Fraser said: "Having said that, let me say this!" How old is the instruction book? I am not going to suggest you run the sump dry. But, there are things written in old instruction books that do not apply today. If your 1925 car instruction book said to use SAE 40 oil, that doesn't mean you have to use that now. If it's a bit rattly, a heavy oil can help. We used to have a Mk12 Villiers that was so worn we filled the sump with 90 gear oil. It's true.
Turning down the grease cups every half hour, or whatever, doesn't apply today. Modern grease is so good it will last much longer. Think of sealed suspension ball joints.
Something else you can ignore is ignition timing settings. Today's higher octane petrol allows more spark advance, which equals more power Go easy on the advance for starting, though, especially with a starting handle. I know spark and valve timing are scary subjects for many. If you are not comfortable with experimenting, leave it alone.
Eric |
Bruce Trappes
Member
Username: bruce_trappes
Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 05:45 am: |
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Must confess Eric that I also have never looked inside a Blaxland 
I'd agree with you about the grease issue, and think you have perhaps unwittingly raised another relevant issue....octane rating.
I had to have a bit of a think about the ratings, and whether they are indeed higher now than they used to be.
Frankly I'm not sure, but that lead me to think about the old Super petrol which contained lead.
Lead in "petrol" is amongst other things a lubricant. Now that leaded petrol is banned, there is another substance that is taken out of the lubrication equation.
In relation to grease, I've been advised by the "Chapman Guru" that grease containing graphite is a definite no-no. |
Peter Ogborne
Senior Member
Username: peterogborne
Post Number: 191
Registered: 09-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 06:00 am: |
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All I have to say on this subject is to drain the sump after a days running .You will soon see that oil accumulates in the crank case .The carry over lubricates the bore .As for the grade of oil ,straight SAE 30 engine oil works for me.
We are talking old technology .I have several Stuart engines again I use SAE 30 and yes they are ball bearing engines there is an accumulation of oil in the crank case.The same applies to my Blaxland and Chapman but of course they have main bearing grease cups. |
Rod Gillespie
Member
Username: dougall
Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 05:26 pm: |
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Hi Peter, my twin has grease cups but my single does not, it has to rely on splash from the sump for both mains and big end. It is an old motor and has done a lot of work but the shaft and bearings are still good. Rod. |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 25
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 05:51 pm: |
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Peter, you said: "You will soon see that oil accumulates in the crank case."
Doesn't this just back up my view that two stroke oils are specially formulated to to blend with and stay in suspension with petrol.
"The carry over lubricates the bore".
If a big end has a dipper working in a trough this is true. If the oil stayed with the petrol the cylinder would be oiled from both ends.
"straight SAE 30 engine oil works for me"
If you can drain off surplus oil, I am not so sure.
Sorry, I'm just a stubborn old coot!!
Eric |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 26
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 06:17 pm: |
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Bruce, regarding octane rating, you are right about it not being as high now. Super used to be 98 and I think unleaded is down to 95. This is still higher than before the super era when I think it was in the higher 80's. Someone may have the exact figures.
Not sure why graphite grease is bad for Blaxlands, but it was not suitable for ball and roller bearings. At least that's what we were told at the time. Apparently the graphite would build up in the races, taking up the clearance and the bearing running hot. I have not had any personal experience.
Eric |
Mark Stretch
Senior Member
Username: marks
Post Number: 89
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 07:03 pm: |
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This is a can of worms. Basically I went through this with Penrite some years ago even going so far as speaking to their chemist.
In respect of 4 strokes something like Shelsey is fine. There is a problem with older 4 strokes which have an integral geabox such as CLAE's Simplex etc with modern oils. These boxes, have various cones which "slip" because of the modern addditives. I found this out the hard way.
Several of the 2 stroke engines I have mention MobilOil Gargoyle BB as the correct oil. The Shelsey Medium is a modern equivalent of this.
So being a simple, or lazy person this is what I use for all of my engines.
However there are some other points which are relevant:
1) Modern 2 stroke (excepting whipper snippers, some lawnmowers etc) engines usually have needle, ball or roller bearings on the cranktrain. Our older 2 strokes usually have plain bearings.
2) The mess factor. If I use modern lubricants in any of my 2 stroke boats oil accumulates on the hull. The Shelsey doesn't tend to be as bad.
I believe this is because the modern oils are designed to burn, but this occurs at higher temps than our old marine engines will achieve. Again I'm lazy, I would rather not spend my time cleaning oily hulls.
I don't think it really matters what you use as long as it is good quality and your comfortable with it.
Cheers
Mark S. |
Bruce Trappes
Member
Username: bruce_trappes
Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 03:24 pm: |
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Reading back over the above posts, the post by Rod Gillespie caught my eye.
"....40 oil did not burn as well and some found its way into the crankcase..."
Just wondering if this is perhaps a clue.
Thinking back to when these engines were first manufactured, I dare say that pretty well all oils (generally speaking) could be classified as 4 stroke oil.
A 40:1 oil mix ratio way back then, would have been pretty radical I'd imagine.
I can clearly remember my father vow & declaring he would never buy a motor mower over a push mower, as the next door neighbour who had a motor mower spent more time pulling the starter chord than pushing the mower....plug oiling up!
I'm off to the wooden boat festival in Hobart this weekend, so will ask Blaxland owners what oil they use.
Rosey....Did you find anything out from Aub Rose?
Thanks Mark for the info regarding Shelsey....I was not aware of this "brand" of oil although I've been a Penrite fan for years. I'll investigate further.
I take your point Eric re octane levels.....I wasn't thinking back far enough  |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 22
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 10:09 pm: |
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Hi all
I spoke to Aub this morning about all things oil and fuel. He said Chappy told him only to use mineral gear oil as it mixed the best with the fuel.
Ratio is as per the manual which is 1/4 pint per Gallon. (i'm not converting but i believe this is around 32:1.)
As far as type of oil He recommends either Castrol ST90 ( hard to get) or Valvoline EPG220.
I use the later as per his rec.
The sump must have 1/8 pint of SAE 50 in it. The manual said that as new the sumps were charged. As per instruction I have recharged each time I have needed to drain. I have only had to do this once by direct feed to the carby.
Modern 2 stroke oils don't lubricate enough Aub said. He found that due to minimal bore clearence the thinness (if thats a word) may cause greater wear or damage.
So in closing if Aub says thats what you do I'm sticking to it no question's asked.
Rosey |
Bruce Trappes
Member
Username: bruce_trappes
Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 11:51 pm: |
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Thanks for the info Rosey, and my regards to Aub.
That's pretty close to my thinking on lubrication.
As much as I would like to run super outboard, I think I will get me a few litres of Valvoline EPG 220.....or investigate the Penrite Shelsey.
Cheers
Bruce |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 27
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 12:24 am: |
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Thank you Rosey for getting that information for us.
A bit of history you or some one else could tell me please; in what year did Graham Chapman die?
Eric |
Bruce Trappes
Member
Username: bruce_trappes
Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 02:01 pm: |
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I asked a few Blaxland owners about the lubrication they used, while at the Wooden Boat Festival over the weekend. All in all their answers were varied and much the same as the ones above.
One chap who had a large variety of stationary engines said he used graphite grease, and was quite happy using it!!
Not a lot of Blaxlands at the festival really.
Valvoline 2 stroke seemed to be the choice of a few owners.
Eric....
One exhibit had a history of Blaxland Chapmans lying on the seat of one of the boats.
I couldn't find the owner, but did photograph his exhibit.
Will go through the pics I took over the next couple of days, and if there is a name or address in the photo, I'll email it to you. |
Eric Schulz
Advanced Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 31
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 05:15 pm: |
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Bruce, thanks for the lubrication report.
If you can find the owner of the Blaxland Chapman history for us, that would be great. I think we have all experienced this at engine rallies, the owner is no where to be seen when you want some information. This is not a criticism, just Murphy's Law in action!
Eric |
miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 265
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 09:52 pm: |
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ONe of the ponts that seems to have been missed, is the observation that there is bad or old gasoline out there.
Even with the best mix ratio or the best oil, some engines simply will not run well on old gasoline.
The gasoline that was available in the early part of the last century, seems to have been much more volatile than what is available today.
I have found that if the gasoline is more than a month or so old, I dump it into my car's tank, and buy some fresh gasoline. Since I only buy small quantities for my boats ( 15 L jerry can) there isn't much of an added expense - and I use the older stuff ayway in my car.
miro |
Peter Ogborne
Senior Member
Username: peterogborne
Post Number: 192
Registered: 09-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 06:32 am: |
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It would seem that this discussion is now starting to sound like a wine club.
Mark ...we agree
Eric...not straight oil in the sump ,of course there is a petrol there as well.
AS Mark says ''What works for you ".
Now here is one for the experts.....In those two stroke engines with grease cups on the main bearings give us your thoughts on the sealing /lubricating qualities of the grease. Is the grease cup a sealing method for crankcase compression formost? |
Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 464
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 09:05 am: |
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The early gasoline had a much higher octane rating than that which came on the market about 1912-1914. The refining process called case heading as I understand it came on stream about that date. The watermen who lived with their two strokes hated it and said it was "not much better then kerosene." Apparently prior to that time almost any carburetor would work with the higher octane fuel. The first mention of mixing oil in the fuel I have been able to find is in the April 1909 Power Boating Magazine on page 179. It refers to this "daring inovation". The credibility of the "innovation" was high as Mssrs. Pierce, Nye and Budd were considered at that time outstanding makers of "High Speed" two stroke marine racing engines. Palmer Bros. picked up the idea and by 1910/11 were placing a tag on their two strokes which read Mix a pint of oil to 5 gallons of gasoline. The oil that was considered suitable seems to have been what was later called SAE 30. It is also significant that many two stroke makers shipped a petcock with the engine which was intended to be piped from the bottom of the crankcase outside the engine bed to permit easy draining of excess oil, water, fuel from the crankcase. The practice of mixing oil in the fuel must have made the makers of drip oilers most unhappy. For a working waterman cleaning the drip oilers was a routine time consuming task as the glass would quickly become so black one could not tell if it was dripping or even how much oil was in each cup. I remember the thick orange, smelley "Albany" grease used in the grease cups. Today I use old time water pump grease as wheel bearing grease is much too thin to seal the bearings and it runs right out. Water pump grease is also getting harder to get these days.
In my experience if the oil collecting in the sump gets to much it comes out the exhaust pipe and makes a black mess. So I drain it off and the engine seems to run better with little or no oil in the sump. Just my opinion of course.
I avoid two stroke oil as it is formulated for high temp burning and very high swept piston speeds both condition which don't exist in old time two strokes. I also have observed at one show a man with a two stroke using two stoke oil was spraying oil out the exhaust and making a big mess. On the other hand other two stroke owners use two stroke oil about 30 to 1 with no problems so I guess the answer is it is your choice. |
Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 587
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 06:17 pm: |
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Yup to Dick Day.
And some additional comments.
Draining the sump depends on the engine. I have a Brown and Talbot that will start to run real bad in an hour or so. Just crack the crankcase drain open and let it blow out the surplus. It then runs good again. I have a Hawboldt that just doesn't care. I ran it for 2 days at Mystic 06 with out draining it. Ran perfect the whole time. When I got home and put it away I drained out over a cup of mung from the base..
I use wheel bearing grease on the mains. Yup Dick is right it's messy. For the fuel mix I use my chain saw mix. 32 to 1 no mess. At least from the engines I run long enough to get the exhaust system hot.
The bottom line is be consistant. Don't just dump in some oil. You may not realize it, however if you adjust the carb so the engine runs good you will be adjusting it every time you run the engine if you aren't consistant with your mix. As to consistancy my Brown and Talbot never needs anything changed. In fact it is a real boring enigne. It runs like a Briggs. Why do I use my chain saw mix? Because it't there.
For my fantail launch that I am hoping to use this summer I will use my outboard mix. 1qt of 30W to 4 gallons. Why the difference from a real one in a boat and idling at a show. The show engines need almost no oil. I am not going to ask my 3 hp Gray that is really working to run that lean on oil. |
Barry Millar
Advanced Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 38
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 08:40 pm: |
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Here is my view regarding grease for 2-cycle main bearings. These bearings are usually bronze shells about 3 - 4 inches long supplied by grease using grease cups.
I consider the purpose of grease is to seal the crankcase so that the crankcase can function as a pump to intake fuel/oil mix and then deliver this mix to the combustion chamber. The grease also lubricates the bearings however this is only secondary to the primary purpose.
I believe that any grease will provide lubrication, as a slow turning old engine is not a demanding lubrication application.
So to satisfy the primary requirement requires a grease that will first and foremost provide crankcases sealing, as long as possible, using the least amount. In my opinion the hardest grease that will feed to the bearings using grease cups is the best to use. The hard grease will probably remain in the bearings longer rather than squirt out into the bilge, making an undesirable mess, or squirt out into the crankcase producing a thick undesirable muck therein, or squirt out into the ignition timing ring causing engine misfires.
Grease is usually designated by a NLGI number. ( National Lubrication Grease Institute) The most common is NLGI No.2, used for example with trailer wheel bearings.
A table is attached listing the NLGI grades.
I have been using a grade 2 grease as it is the only one available at the local auto supply store and for the reasons stated above I find it unacceptable.
So I conducted an Internet search to locate a grade 4 grease that is available in small quantity and discovered Lubriplate #115.
I have bench tested Lubriplate 115 and confirm that is does feed using a hand operated grease cup. This is a heavy and thick grease and in my opinion will be much better although, I am unable to put it to test using my test bench until the snow melts and weather warms.
In August 2003, wdboat posted a message to this discussion board asking for the experience of others regarding Lubriplate 115, but no replies. I wonder if wdboat has any application experience since 2003 or perhaps others are already using this product.
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/1/1931.html
 |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 23
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:33 pm: |
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Peter
I believe that grease cups are a secondary means of lube. They also serve as measure to prevent moisture from the bilge entering the crankcase. These days with most of the boats on trailers I guess that it isn't as critical however if the vessel was on a mooring 24/7 and not attended daily if not weekly then the hyro-actrative nature of oil and fuel would cause an issue???? |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 24
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:36 pm: |
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Sorry
I neglected to say I use marine water pump grease |
Peter Ogborne
Senior Member
Username: peterogborne
Post Number: 193
Registered: 09-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 06:15 am: |
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Thanks to every one ....a good discussion! |
Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 588
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 01:32 pm: |
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You can purchase Lubriplate 115 on the web directly from them.
http://www.lubriplate.com/webstore/detail.aspx?ID=11
I just purchased a 14oz can. We will see how it works as soon as it gets warm enough to run something. Actually I am thinking about my boat. I really don't care on a show engine. However I don't want the mess in the bilge. |
Barry Millar
Advanced Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 39
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 07:08 pm: |
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Restorationstuff.com located in California also sell Lubriplate 115 at $8.00 for 14 ounce can.
I notice they import and sell Penrite Water Pump Grease from Australia. They list this as NLGI grade 4 at $8.00 per 50ml, same classification as Lubriplate 115, both hard grease.
http://www.restorationstuff.com/Catalog/RSC%20Cat%202007.pdf
I wonder if Australian users of Penrite would comment regarding how it works in 2 cycle engine main bearings. Does it squeeze out or does it stay put. |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 25
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 03:12 am: |
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Barry
I don't use Penrite. Maybe I should. I use castrol water pump grease of the same grade.
On the hole it doesn't oooze out. If I really wind up the grease cups heaps (technical term)it does squeeze out. Moderation not generousity seems to be the best policy.
Ernie
Instead of staying put in the US over winter spend summer here in Aussie and be warm all year round. When you go back state side I will look after your new Aussie boat?????? |
Bruce Findlay
Member
Username: bruce_findlay
Post Number: 20
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 04:49 pm: |
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John.
I've had a look at the Castrol website but can't find any reference to Water Pump Grease. Do you have a description or product number for the grease that you use?
Cheers,
Bruce F |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 26
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 02:15 am: |
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Bruce
I probably mislead a bit. The product is castrol boating grease. It states that it can be used for all boating purposes such as water pumps as well a high temp situations like wheel bearings on a trailer. It only limits its worthyness in submersion for extended periods. |
Bruce Findlay
Member
Username: bruce_findlay
Post Number: 21
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 05:31 pm: |
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Hi John,
Yeah, that's what I use now. It's a bit soft and gooey. It oozes out of the bearings of my Blaxland SXT and drips into the bilge. Would the Penrite NLGI No. 4 Water Pump Grease be any better? If so, where can I get it in Sydney?
Cheers,
Bruce. |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 88
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 08:03 am: |
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I posted some info about grease on the main forum if any of you are interested. It's on the One and Two Cylinder Gas Inboards section. |
Murray Hopkins
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 10:35 pm: |
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Here is another spanner in the works on the oil.
About 3 years ago I spoke to Aub Rose on this subject. I am certain that the oil in the sump not only splashes the bearing but is critical to the correct volumetric area under the piston, more oil or less than is stated in the manual will cause all sorts of starting and operating problems. |
Greg Yin
Member
Username: gregoryan
Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 05:44 am: |
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Eric Schulz:...
"what's unique about Blaxland engines that they can't cope with 2-stroke oil? That really has me intrigued."
Well I’m glad you asked!: All recent two-strokes have needle roller bearings [also mentioned by bruce_trappes] in their big-ends, which are virtually frictionless, unlike the plain bearings that we have in our putt putts. One may think that putt putts are low-stress, but the combustion pressure forcing that cannon ball down on a plain bearing is not!
I heard that the petroil mix, when entering via the crankcase, as it does; the oil from the mix, more readily condenses on the relatively cooler crankcase surfaces than the petrol, this replenishes the small puddle in the sump. But with any other faster 2 stroke than the slow-speed marine-petrol, [which is the old marine engine], this oil puddle would mistify and go straight up the transfer ports to the combustion chamber, and outwards!
I tried to get some monograde detergent-less oil, but would have had to buy a 44gallon drum [x 32:1 = 1,408 gallons of fuel!]
I have managed to get straight 50, 4-stroke oil but by the smell of it in the 2stroke exhaust- must be another detergent oil as it stinks like a pre ‘90s Mitsubishi smoke screen.
When I explain to some shops what I am looking for in an oil, they look at me as tho I have 2 heads.
Once I heard of someone using gear oil in their blaxland single, I thought “that’s a good idea; nice n thick- easy to get, thicker the better” so I ran it too for a while, stank bad tho! Then I started to notice that each time I went to the boat, that the engine was a little stuck! I thought ‘uh- O’. The next time I took the barrel off, discovered that all the rings were glued in!!! So; no more gear oil for me, + it really messed up the stern of the boat, not to mention the environmental effect.
Surely an oil that burns nicely leaves less residue; what about R30 castor oil!!!?? Being that it is 30 grade + burns at a lower temp as it is veg oil, but it wont burn in the cooler crank. Any suggestions
Grease cups; I think any grease will squeeze out with the dilution from the crankcase petrol + air pressure/ vacuum. I happened to be given some ‘open geared winch grease’ this is really sticky and thick, water resistant, but will go through the cup stems well enough. I don’t know where it comes from tho?
So; what oil for plain bearing 2 stroke, slow-speed petrol? Prob detergentless mongrade if you get it somewhere? |
Bruce Findlay
Advanced Member
Username: bruce_findlay
Post Number: 40
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 11:54 pm: |
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For those of you Australian contributors still interested in this topic, I managed to track down the distributor for the Penrite Water Pump Grease. He is also the stockist for the Penrite Vintage Oil Products as well. His name is David Stuart and he trades under the name of Antique Tyre Supplies. His phone number is (02) 9618 2788. His service is very prompt and efficient and he is one of nature's gentlemen as well. Bruce F. |
Todd Vidgen
Member
Username: todd_vidgen
Post Number: 28
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 08:12 am: |
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Guys, your hurting my head
I Have typed this out several times
Just ring me
0416270962 Todd |
Wendy McMurdo
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 02:41 am: |
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Can anyone tell me whether they've been able to locate any Castrol ST90 gear oil or Valvoline EPG 220 in recent times, and if so where?
For the past 12 years I've ploughed my way through a 25ltr barrel of ST90 to keep a Chapman Greyhound going but am now running low. Would appreciate any information. There must be some out there somewhere (apart from in the UK which will be my next inquiry).
Please call me if you can help
Wendy
0402 436 151} |
Wendy McMurdo
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 02:44 am: |
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Further to the above posting...I'm looking for somewhere in the greater Sydney region as I live on the Hawkesbury. Anywhere between Newcastle and Wollongong would be fine. |
Bruce Findlay
Advanced Member
Username: bruce_findlay
Post Number: 42
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 03:14 am: |
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Wendy,
I have searched and searched but I have not been able to find it. Certainly not in small quantities. I decided on using Penrite Classic Medium (SAE 40, only available in 5 and 20 litre). See one of my previous postings for the supplier but please don't tell Todd Vidgen or he'll start swearing at me again :-)
Bruce. |
Todd Vidgen
Senior Member
Username: todd_vidgen
Post Number: 54
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2008 - 05:15 am: |
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Hello Bruce ,Luv your work ,hows your boat going?
Give me a call
But seriously guys if you want tech stuff just ring,
we have all the time in the world for enthusiasts,
who have commitment
Bruce ,you are comming to the reggatta ,yes?
Wendy ,ph no 4 posts up^ |
Bruce Findlay
Advanced Member
Username: bruce_findlay
Post Number: 43
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 02:22 am: |
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Hi Todd, I haven't struck a blow on my boat since the last time I saw you (exhaust manifold casting). I really wanted to do a bit of a refurbish before spring but it doesn't look like I'll get it done in time for the regatta. I'm also worried that because my engine is so "tired", as you like to put it, by the time I get back to the start of the course everyone else will have packed up and gone home and I don't have any navigation lights either.  |
Todd Vidgen
Senior Member
Username: todd_vidgen
Post Number: 58
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2008 - 02:19 am: |
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Mate we will loan you a manifold if we have to get you here
Dont forget we are handicaping this year,anyway
Daren needs company at the rear of the procession
Also daylight savings will be in force |
Ian Gatenby
New member
Username: the_bigfella
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 01:39 am: |
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About 9 posts back Greg asked about using Castrol R.
Has anyone given any consideration to this? It definitely smells nice! |
David Myers
Advanced Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 50
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 02:00 am: |
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Hi Ian.
Do not use Castrol R as it separates from the Petrol when standing. It does not fully mix.
Also when the engine is cold the Castrol R gets very thick and makes it hard to turn the motor over. We used it many years ago in Bike racing but the tank was drained after each meeting and the motor flushed thru with Kerosene to clean out the oil.
As you commented... Smells nice.
Valvolene make a 30 grade in 1 litre packs and it works ok for me with no problems at all. I get it at SuperCheap.
Cheers,
Dave |
Ian
New member
Username: the_bigfella
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 02:09 am: |
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Thanks Dave - but you know you've broken my heart. I love the smell of Castrol R. |
Todd Vidgen
Senior Member
Username: todd_vidgen
Post Number: 86
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 04:31 pm: |
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Dave ,I have not seen your entry to the regatta
Are you comming? |
David Myers
Senior Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 05:48 pm: |
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G'Day Todd,
Dont know if I have to work on the 26th as yet. Am trying to change my shift. Let you know.
Off to Tweed in about 15 minutes.
C Ya later.
Dave |
John Stafford
New member
Username: staffo
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 07:17 am: |
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When my father first bought our Blaxland 3 1/2 (later upgrased to a Chapman 4 1/4) the recommended oil mix was 1/4 pint Castrol XL (1 :32)to a gallon of petrol. At some later date (1960's)the formulation of XL changed and it was no longer suitable as a two stroke oil. My father enquired from Castrol and they said to use Castrol Outboard motor oil. This oil is formulated for water cooled engines. Other two stroke oils formulated for air cooled engines were not recommended, presumably because they were formulated for engines that run much hotter.
Since then the engine has run on outboard motor oil without any obvious problems.(although it has recently had a 15 year holiday, now terminated) |
