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| What model is my stuart turner??? |
| Author |
Message |
    
Hans Poutsma
New member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 09:12 am: | 
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I have just bought a 30ft marine ply yacht with a
stuart turner 8 hp two stroke petrol inboard with a electic start,
I want to browse through the posts regarding this engine, but I don't know what model this is.
Anyone got a minute? |
Peter Ogborne
Senior Member
Username: peterogborne
Post Number: 123
Registered: 09-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 07:03 pm: |
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It would more than likely be a P55 Hans. This should be stamped on the brass nameplate. |
tony white
Visitor
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 03:55 am: |
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can anyone help? I have a 9hp single cylinder electric/hand start stuart diesel with fnr gearbox, mostly alloy construction, painted yellow(original)raw water cooled, very compact/neat. poor compression. any info anybody?
really looking for manual/photo-copy |
Tim Mulvey
Senior Member
Username: timmulvey
Post Number: 84
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 05:10 am: |
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Presumably it's a H2M model as that model is 9HP. I've got a photocopy of the manual but I'm in Australia - email me to discuss postage at your cost.
To confirm the model do a websearch on the phrase "H2M diesel" or "H2M engine" and you should find a website www.oldengine.org that has a section on a H2M diesel OR ELSE post a pic on this discussion board. |
Hans Poutsma
New member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 08:44 am: |
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Tim,
Thanks for your help and advice,
I wonder if you or anyone else could tell me what year my P55 is,
the engine number is 25810
Thanks
Hans. |
Tim Mulvey
Senior Member
Username: timmulvey
Post Number: 87
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 05:00 am: |
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The range of engine numbers 25,000 to 26,999 were manufactured between June 1943 and October 1949, so this gives you a rough idea. Specfic info can be obtained from Fairways Marine who now handle all the Stuart parts www.fairwaysmarine.com - see their website for history on the Stuart Turner Limited company. I belive that the firm ceased producing Stuart marine engines in about the 1970s and sold that side of the business to Fairways so they could focus on their successful range of pumps. |
Hans Poutsma
New member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 09:50 am: |
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Thanks again Tim,
You are a wealth of knowledge.
Hans. |
homer
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 09:27 am: |
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your engine was sold to Dan Webb and Feesey a very well known boat builder in England for many years.manufactured in October 1946. as a P55m 8HP @1500rpm.
complete with stern gear it has had a few trips back to the factory during the 50s and 60s for repairs
We do as Tim suggests hold all records for every single Stuart engine ever made and do normally have a small charge for this as it takes a while to dust off the books but in this case given with our compliments
Kindest regards
David
www.fairwaysmarine.com}} |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 05:25 am: |
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Wow,
thanks a lot David.
More info than I thought was possible.
Very helpfull and generous of you.
Hans. |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 02:06 am: |
|
Heres another question.
A couple of days ago we moved my boat from the club we have been restoring her at, to her new mooring.
I have begun to know my way around the starting tricks and techniques of starting this engine, so far so good.
What I am asking is that after sailing to our destination
(by the way she -a 30 ft Van De Stadt Seahorse- sailed beautifully under a main only she perfectly steered herself through the 15 knots and 2 meter waves)
I started the motor and pulled down the sail to motor in to find our mooring. We had the throttle as low as possible, and the choke as low as produced a safe idle in neutral, but when we put it in gear we were absolutley flying along- we couldn't slow down. My uncle on the tiller had to do circles and circles while I was down below trying to fiddle with the choke and throtle. We would have looked hilarious.
What seemed to be occuring was that there was a degree of throttle involved in the gear shift, that if we put it all the way forward then it increased the throttle, but if we had it back a bit, then the throttle would idle slower.
Does this happen? Or is something else going on.
Also, it was really 'gassy' in our cabin. We have an ice cream container set up under the primer that catches the squirt of fuel when it finally comes through.
This tends to get a fair bit of oil in it, after this trip, with maybe 45 mins on the motor, it had almost a table spoon of oil.
I don't know if this is from fuel coming out, and then evaporating, giving us the gassy smell, or whether it is just mainly oil coming out.
The fuel mix is definately 50:1.
Thanks in advance. |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 06:09 am: |
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I am just going to bump this up, to post my most important question again.
I started the motor and pulled down the sail to motor in to find our mooring. We had the throttle as low as possible, and the choke as low as produced a safe idle in neutral, but when we put it in gear we were absolutley flying along- we couldn't slow down. My uncle on the tiller had to do circles and circles while I was down below trying to fiddle with the choke and throtle. We would have looked hilarious.
What seemed to be occuring was that there was a degree of throttle involved in the gear shift, that if we put it all the way forward then it increased the throttle, but if we had it back a bit, then the throttle would idle slower.
Does this happen? Or is something else going on?
If anyone could help me here, that would be much appreciated.
Hans. |
Peter Ogborne
Senior Member
Username: peterogborne
Post Number: 146
Registered: 09-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 07:03 am: |
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Hans ,a feature of these engines is that you can set the throttle lever at whatever speed you want . Then when you put the box into neutral the engine speed drops to idle. Then without touching the throttle lever and putting the box into reverse or forward the engine resumes the previous speed. Very good for coming up alongside that jetty!
Sounds like you engine and gear are out of wack . It is a case of adjusting the throttle and gear lever settings . You may find that the spring and cam in the gearbox colum are not returning the rod to idle .....bit hard to explain ...lets know if you are stuck ,maybe a picture will help. |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 03:28 am: |
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Thanks Peter,
Yeah I know about the throttle thing only engaging when in gear,
this was why I was yellling to my uncle from below as we did laps around the mooring while manually depressing the throttle
"are you sure you've got the throttle down? Are you SURE?"
The spring thing sounds like it might be the problem, as by hand I could push the throttle in further than it would naturally release itself to.
Next time I go out there I will have another look.
Might be time to have a little study of my manual.
Thanks, Hans. |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 09:09 am: |
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First I would like to thank again everyone who has helped me here and provided their time, knowledge and experience. It is invaluable.
Next, after apologizing for a very long post...
I am having some ongoing and some new issues with my P55.
Two days ago I went sailing and things were simply not going right.
Firstly it is a royal pain in the behind to start (admitably I need a new battery as the charge it holds is insufficient and to preserve some power I have to crank it by hand to get it moving before pressing the electric start). I used to think I had the 'tricks' to starting down pat- now I am back to clueless?
What usually happens is I turn the fuel on, the water, the power, prime the carb, and then crank it and electric start it and crank it it and start it, swear a little, fiddle with the choke, change it, repeat, take out the plugs, clean them, check that its primed, worry that it is flooded, repeat, repeat, swear alot more, repeat, then after AT LEAST half an hour, it will finally (maybe) start...
These moments of success leave me confused because it is all a bit random and as far as I can tell I was doing nothing substantially different at the end as I was at the beginning.
After I have had it running, getting me off my mooring, and on the return from my sail, thankfully it has been alot easier to start, but this does not ease my anxiety that one day soon I shall be stuck out there facing the challenge of sailing onto my mooring (as a newbie sailor this is not something I wish to try yet!) or worse.
the next problem, and the newly arising one, is that on this last sail, when I finally got it started, fiddled witht the choke to get it running well and then headed off into the bay- once it was in gear and after running well for a small amount of time, it would begin to bog down and loose power, sounding like it was getting too little (or even too much?) air. As the previous owner had disconected the choke cable from the cockpit (as once he had it running he never touched it) when it would begin to 'bog out' like this I would have to jump down into the cabin and manually fiddle with the choke again to try to get it running smooth and strong again. This might have worked for a little while, but full power was never achieved and the problem would return.
After turning off the engine and briefly sailing, unconfident in the engine we decided to turn back, and I started the engine again and dropped the sails.
This is when another issue became apparent. As the swell would roll underneath us, the more dramatic so, and steep angles would cause the engine to bog right down again, off an on with the swell. With nothing but the marina rocks in front of me, all sails down, a faltering engine, and three hungover totally useless newbies for crew (I had to do everything) this was not exactly fun.
In spite of my fears, it never did actually conk out, so I am thankfull of that.
So,
Things I have been thinking.
having just finished full time Uni for the year, It has not been started nearly as much or regularly as I would like.
is it a problem with the fuel? It is a little old now, three months since it came out of the bowser- a problem with the oil (I know the mix was right 50:1) maybe the wrong oil? I don't have the exact type at hand, but I used the old style two stroke oil for lawnmowers and chainsaws- maybe the oil has seperated in the tank-
A problem with the fuel line- blocked, clogged, the fuel filter?
Is it time for a de-coke?
???
Other syptoms are that it seems to be spitting a fair amount of oily fuel out of the carby(?) into the metal drip tray and overflowing beyond into the plastic ice cream bucket that the old owner already had there underneath. I don't know if this is a new symptom or not. Either way, after the painfull process of starting and then running the engine, this leaves the cabin uncomfortably (and possibly dangerously) gassy for the duration of the journey.
Last bit of info is that it seems to run a lot stronger in reverse than it does in forward. Also, when I disengage from forward into neutral, it does not disengage unless I then drop it into reverse and then back to neutral.
A problem witht the gear box?
Any suggestions of where to start?
Also, I would very much appreciate some advice on the best methods to try to start this engine, ie. position of choke, sequence of events etc.
Thank you any who have advice,
and again,
sorry for the long post.
Hans. |
David Stott
Member
Username: david_stott
Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 05:45 pm: |
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Hans,
I have also experienced loss of power when under way with my P55 (Solex carby. Seems related to float level, as this carby seems very sensitive to float level. If I have more than usual number of passengers in the bow creating a nose down attitude I have a problem. A quick application of a little choke usually keeps us running, and then I relocate a passenger to the stern to maintain the usual nose up attitude when under way. I have altered the angle of the carby a little to raise the float level and that helps. This may account for your problems in rough seas.
You know if the float level is too high because exhaust gets smoky.
Re Starting. I only apply full choke until engine starts then release. Don't flood carby as well.
Re Oil. I use Castrol oil for water cooled outboards. Lawn mower oil is designed for hot running air cooled engines and burns at a higher temp. In our water cooled, relatively cold running engines it wont burn and gets thrown out the exhaust and makes a mess.
Re Fuel at the carby. This could be flooding, at low speeds. if your needle valve is not sealing. At high speeds this would not be a problem but at low speeds the engine won't use all the fuel that is coming down the line and it leaks out.
Hope some of this helps. It is a learning process getting to know your engine.
David |
David Myers
Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 06:07 pm: |
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Hello Hans,
Firstly do not de-coke the engine. 2 strokes do not require this with todays modern oils. Having said that, it sounds like the exhaust is one problem. A build up of oil and soot over time collects in the exhaust and especially the Muffler.This causes a build up of back pressure and will stop the motor from revving and also hard to start. Take these off and clean them out.
Next, there are 2 drain plugs at the base of the crankcase on the Port side near the hold down bolts. Remove these and drain the excess oil and fuel that has built up over the years.
Have the magneto serviced as the Stuarts like a good spark.
Have the Carby serviced or do it youself, (just make a note of where everthing goes as you strip it) there is not much to them. You should not be running with the choke after initial starting.
These are the main things to check and maintain. If the motor is still cranky to start after this it will probably need stripping and the crankshaft seals replacing but this is a last resort. Your comment on "spitting" could be the seals but try the above things first.
My P55 will regularly start with a 'flick' of the flywheel by hand or 1st swing with the crank. I use no more than half choke to start and when running use no choke at all.
Hope this helps Hans.
Cheers
Dave. |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 09:41 am: |
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Thank you both for your advice, David and Dave.
Sorry it took so long to reply, have been very busy.
David,
I will check out the carby float thing when I get a chance, and it is good to know I am not alone in this. The thing is that this has noticably started happening rather than always happened.
My exhuast does blow some smoke, but I just thought this was a characteristic of the engine rather than a problem. How much smoke is normal?
So it seems that in spite of recieving so much good advice from people, I went out and bought the wrong oil... For some reason I thought that outboard oil was designed for modern engines that ran a lot hotter than ours??
Is it ok to just use up the twenty or so liters of fuel in the tank or should I drain and replace?
Also, where did you buy your castrol oil for water cooled outboards- boat shop? petrol station?
Not quite sure how to check if the needle valve is working, but as you say, this is indeed a learning process. I am going to have to study my manual and get to know this little guy.
My problem is that as yet I have never learnt to be much of a engine mechanic, and most of my past efforts and near future ones have been on rebuilding the boat itself.
I have a few major jobs to do on the boat over these next few weeks, and then I will have move onto the engine more seriously.
Dave,
I will try to check out the exhaust and muffler, though I fear this is going to be a bit of an excercise. Any tips on how to best clean them out?
Can I service the magneto myself? What does this involve? is it mainly alining the points?
Same with the carby...
is this basically a clean out job, or do things need to be adjusted etc...?
These peices that I can take off the boat I should be able to get some good help with from my girlfriends father who is quite fascinated by the engine, so they will probably go ok.
I really hope nothing more serious needs to be done.
It is time to enjoy this boat a bit, rather than fix and rebuild.
Dave, I am green with envy about how easily your engine starts.
I guess that this is something for me to aim for.
Thanks guys.
Sorry for all the clueless questions.
Hans. |
David Stott
Member
Username: david_stott
Post Number: 14
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 05:44 pm: |
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Hans,
I buy my outboard oil from a service station in a boating area. Cant get it near home, but marine/boating shops will have it.
Re smoke. I can barely see smoke from my exhaust when running normally. Other people would not notice any smoke.
On the other hand, when carby was flooding, I left a smoke screen. That was too much.
Re needle valve. Once fuel is turned on, and float rises fuel flow should stop. If you still have fuel leaking out of the carby this means fuel could still be flowing and float bowl overflowing. The spares I have with my enging include a number of old needle valves so could have been a regular problem.
Re Fuel, a drain and replace is probably best option, but if the engine runs and you have room in the tank, mixing with the new fuel will be ok and after a few top ups you will have new fuel mix. Be aware of old fuel. Unleaded seems to go off after a few months especially unless it is kept in a fully sealed container like a jerry can. So to could be a good idea to top up with new fuel each run, and not leave too much in the tank.
Hans, dont worry about the learning process, thats how we all do it. If you understand the basics about internal combustion engines then with some trial and error you too will be answering questions for newbies on this site.
I was in your position only 5 years ago when I bought my boat.
David.
PS Hi to you too Dave Meyers. Is that boat out of your carport and in the water yet? |
David Myers
Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 06:17 pm: |
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Hans,
To clean the exhaust pipe and muffler, remove them and spray the insides with the cheap Degreaser ($2:00 a can) that you get from the bargain shops. Let it stand and then wash out with the hose. Some areas you may need to scrape any real build up of gunk.
The magneto only requires that the points are clean (DO NOT use wet and dry or emery cloth) use your girlfriends Nail File to give them a clean up and set the gap to 12- 15 thou (.3-.5 mm). Also check the coupling block where the Magggy joins the motor. These are a fibre block and do get some wear and causes the timing to be retarded slighty. I have had to make up sleeves for a number of these with that problem, I use plastic tube or sometimes a piece of copper tube to make the sleeves to fit over the drive pins.
The Carby is very simple and there are no ready adjustments. Just make sure everything is clean and the jets etc are clear. Use a fine wire to clean them out. David is right about the float level and the needle adjustment is very simple. Test the float to make sure it does not have any leaks by placing it in some warm water and observing if there are any bubbles. No bubbles, The float is OK.
By the way, David lives around Melbourne and is a member of the Wooden Boat Association of Australia. If really stuck you may be able to contact him as he is a wealth of knowledge also. (Hi Dave).
Good luck with the motor Hans. Study the manual and basicaly work out what does what. After all... Mechanics is 98% common sense and 2% knowledge.
Keep in touch
Dave |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 05:17 am: |
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Thanks again guys.
I will keep in touch.
This weekend I will be out there on the swing mooring attatching my restored toerails (breaking in my new pure sine wave 'rare earth permanent magnet' generator') so I may try to bring back the carby and maybe even the muffler and exhaust to work on at home. Depends how long the toerails take.
Cheers,
Hans. |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:09 pm: |
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update.
I cleaned out the tank and drained the petrol, refilled wiith new petrol with correct oil and eventually got it started again.
It ran quite nice, but still leaked out a lot of petrol from the carby.
I also have a bran new much bigger marine battery to put in so hopefully there will be no more cranking and nearly breaking my thumb again when it slips off (again and again).
Tommorrow I am going to remove the carby to bring it home and service it.
Questions...
In my manual it says that there is a special instruction leaflet that describes the solex carby (and if i am right then this is the carby I have?).
I don't have this leaflet, does anyone have a copy (digital prefereable)?
Also apparantly fairwaysmarine have images on their website about the carby's, but their website is currently down (rebuilding I think) so I can't access these. Does anyone have any of those images or diagrams?
Also, is there a gasket kit that i could buy? Is there a model number or item code for this (i hoping I could get this locally).
Are the gaskets that red carboard-like material?
If so, if I can't buy them do I have to just copy and cut them out?
anyway, I probably have more questions...
but they can wait.
Thanks.
Hans. |
David Stott
Member
Username: david_stott
Post Number: 15
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 05:48 pm: |
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Hans,
You can make you own gaskets. Just get some material from a local auto parts supplier.
There is no adjustment on the solex carby, only idle speed using the throttle stop screw.
I will see if I have a copy of the leaflet with my manual. |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 05:59 am: |
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OK,
I have brought the carby home and completely cleaned (and polished) it.
The jets seem fine, the needle valve seals air to about 95% (or better)
However,
the float has some liquid in it- and thus hopefully this is problem found.
I have tried to find the leak but it does not seem to exist!
I have polished up the float to see it better.
Assuming it is petrol in there I imersed the float in soapy freshly boiled water and held it right under, expecting to soon see gas bubbles rise out of the hole from the heating petrol expanding.
No luck, No bubbles.
Next, thinking it could be water, I put it in the freezer until icy, and shook it, and yes, still liquid. It is definately petrol.
Now I have been boiling it in a pot of water for an hour or so and still no bubbles and still the same amount of liquid inside.
There are a couple of tiny little dents on the top, but really no visable spot where the hole should be.
So I am at a bit of a loss on how to get the petrol out (short of drilling a little hole) and how to locate whatever tiny hole let it in in the first place?
Anyone got any ideas?
Also, regarding the gaskets-
there are very few on the thing. there is a couple for the petrol line connection, there is on for the main jet, and there is one for the join onto the engine block- and that is all.
There are a couple of places it would appear that more gaskets might be good (between the float chamber and the lid, and between the idle jet)...
what do you guys think?
what is meant to have a gasket and what not?
Would there be any harm in me adding gaskets where small gaps between fittins are evident?
Thanks in advance.
I appreciate any advice.
Hans. |
David Stott
Member
Username: david_stott
Post Number: 16
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 05:26 pm: |
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Hans, My Solex Carby does not have a gasket between the float chamber and lid, and I believe that to be normal. |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 09:19 am: |
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Thanks David.
I am now thinking that the gaskets are probably fine like they are
but
the float has still got me clueless.
I suppose that if even under heat I cannot get any of the petrol gas to come out then whatever hole it came in through is no longer much of a hole.
so I guess all that is left to do is to drill a very little hole to get the petrol out, seal it up and hope for the best.
Unless anyone has any other ideas.
by the way I have really enjoyed cleaning this thing up and understanding it. It is really beautifully and simply made.
I can see how the enthusiasts get their motivation.
I am looking forward to cleaning up, polishing and painting the rest of the engine to go with the carby now.
Thanks for the help guys.
Hans. |
Peter Ogborne
Senior Member
Username: peterogborne
Post Number: 188
Registered: 09-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 06:17 am: |
|
Hans ,have you considered that what you think may be petrol or water in the float is in fact a small lump of solder that may have got in there in the process of a repair to the float.It's a long shot . |
Hans Poutsma
Member
Username: hansp77
Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:44 am: |
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Hello Peter,
yeah I considered pretty much everything, but it was clearly a liquid, and a fair bit of it too. It really had me puzzled as to where it got in.
As it turned out I am pretty sure it was a minute hairline crack around the top rim.
I think that for many many years it has slowly accumulated petrol inside. The old owner of the boat kept a ice cream container under the carby to collect the drip off.
I ended up drilling a tiny hole in the top of the carby, and drained out, sure enough, a heap of petrol.
Then the problems started when I tried to used my girlfreind's (who is a silversmith) 'easiest' solder with a torch. The original solder on the float began to blister before I could get the stuff I was using to properly melt, and all of a sudden I had a lot more problems that just the hole I drilled.
Today I got some super soft electrical solder (acid cored) and resoldered the hole I drilled and all of the (now) compromised seams. Then I had a fair bit of cleaning up to do.
Now it is all done, the float is not leaking, the carby is cleaned and polished and ready to go back in. The needle valve is sealing 100%.
strangely the float comes in wheighing 31.6 grams as apposed to the 33 gr that is stamped on it (I forgot to wheigh it after I drained it). I was worried that the extra solder that I applied (with some that obviously seeped through the seems due to my excess heat at first) was going to make the float too heavy.
I hope this won't be an issue, but I guess it is always easier to add a little weight rather than remove it.
heres a few photos.
I can't wait to get the rest of the engine spiffed up to match.
thanks for the help guys.
 |
m3kurtz
Visitor
| | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 12:40 am: |
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I had the Stuart Turner many years ago in my Seahorse. It would "bog out" after running awhile. when I pulled the engine for overhaul, I found a large sooty deposit in the exhaust manifold gooseneck. This constricted the exhaust flow to an area about 1/2" in diameter. The engine would run until it choked on its own exhaust gases, then cease . After a period of time, the exhaust gases would clear out, and the engine would run again. I cleared out the gooseneck area, sold the boat, and the new owner never had trouble. |
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