| Author |
Message |
    
John Vellam
New member
Username: collectamaniac
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 02:39 pm: | 
|
Mmmmm bad start - sorry - I posted this under a different heading so this is it repeated!
Hello, firstly it is important that I point out that virtually everything I have collected over the years is old 'rubbish'. It must be because my wife says so and, of course, she is right about
everything. Am I alone in the World in constantly finding excuses for not disposing of my 'rubbish' or collecting further 'rubbish' I wonder?
Well guys my latest acquisition is a Stuart Turner P66D. I have read with interest many postings on Stuart Turner engines but now need to
ask for a few scraps of information myself. The serial number is 22B217 and I wondered if anyone might know how I can find out when it was manufactured? I will also need a manual and the source of one would be much appreciated. Don't know if it runs yet but first I need to set it up clean the carb check all connections and see if anything is missing. Difficult because I haven't owned or seen one before but seem to have caught a bug. That must explain why I've been strangely
compelled to buy it - apart from the fact that I need it for my also newly acquired Teal and that I like the look of the STs. My brother can't understand why I bought a boat in such appalling condition or an engine I know virtually nothing about. Well, here's hoping someone can
help me! Photos or sources of same welcomed. Thanks in advance. |
George Martin
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 04:47 am: |
|
Hi John, a good source is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stinfoexchange/
You have to join, its free and may take a day or so to register. Pics of most engines are there and repair handbooks also. |
John Vellam
Member
Username: collectamaniac
Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 05:12 am: |
|
Hi George many thanks for your reply. I have now joined the yahoo group and eagerly await access to their mine of information. |
John Vellam
Member
Username: collectamaniac
Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 05:20 pm: |
|
Hello again - sorry but this is almost 'War and Peace'!
I have a newly acquired ST P66D with Dynastart/coil ignition and know little about them except what I have read recently - but - I am keen to learn! (Just over 60 but still memory retentive - where was I?)
I have now gained access to the 'stinfo yahoo' group and avidly read just about everything on the site plus looked at photos. Although the questions below display my quite unashamed ignorance of ST engines it does however lead me to several questions I need your help with in answering please:
1. (Gentle start to lull you into a sense of false security.) I see on some engines that all the nuts are brass yet on others steel - which is original? - clearly some of the larger ones, and threaded fittings, are meant to be brass. Are some of the steel ones replaced by brass simply to make them look more attractive? There are quite a few steel ones on mine.
2. My engine, which appears to be in pretty good nick externally at least, looks different in many respect to others I have seen and I find this worrying. Others seem to have more 'gubbins' than mine so I think quite a few bits may be missing. For example on the Solex carb side of the block some way above the carb there are two cast retaining brackets - both broken - but nothing running horizontally between them. (Well being broken nothing could anyway I suppose!) On photos I have seen a shaft running fore to aft yet I don't have one.
3. I can't see any form of gear change on mine - it is marked 'reverse gear' but where is the gubbins to change from forward to reverse?
4. On some photos I see some sort of gubbins at the aft end rising vertically with a handle attached. Mine doesn't have one although I do have a separate handle with a green knob at one end and a right angle bit at the other with a chain sprocket on it. Maybe some sort of manual start mechanism? Oh yes there is a chain lying next to the flywheel.
5. The coils on mine are positioned differently to others I've seen - both are on the carb side one above the other. Is positioning relevant or important?
6. What sort of clear tubing do I need on the H2O front - the sort you buy from tropical fish shops or something more substantial?
7. I have no shaft nor prop - where do I obtain these from please and what type is best/required to optimally drive a 22 footer?
8. I have read the exhaust section in the manual and see that I need an 18 inch silencer - where do I get one please? Is it the Stuart Turner site that has taken over from the previous supplier? (This silencer is additional to the 4 miles of tubing recommended - well 6 feet anyway.)
9. Thankfully I have the large exhaust nut but what do I connect it to? Some forums suggest galvanised scaffolding pipe, (sounds horrendous), and the ST manual mentions domestic copper pipe. 10. My boat already has an elbow externally leading to a threaded piece internally, looking remarkably similar to the ST nut thread, and I'm hoping to connect to this but I'm worried that externally it seems to go down to Davey Jones locker - almost to the keel of the boat - is this normal? How long should it be?
11. My boat, think its a Teal, grp with a simulated clinker effect, has a hole at the transom where it previously had a leg attached. (Don't know which type.) What is the best way to seal this? It is grp both sides externally with marine ply in the core. Once sealed how do I fit a propshaft and seal and at what distance below the waterline?
Sorry for all this but I've never had an inboard before so it's a steep learning curve.
I'm cringing at being such a nuisance but I have no one locally to ask (I live near Kings Lynn in the UK) and no boats to look at. Maybe there is a fount of all knowledge text that I should refer to? I admit I do prefer a talking 'fount.'
I'm very keen and very happy with my lovely looking little (yet heavy) ST engine. Hope it works after all this!
I hope someone kind and understanding can help me a little please - at least with a few of my questions. I can attach photos if it helps. Thank you. |
steven john page
Advanced Member
Username: fairbanks
Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 07:13 am: |
|
Hello John , It might be a good idea if you did post some photos. cheers steve. |
John Vellam
Member
Username: collectamaniac
Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 03:59 pm: |
|
Hello again Steve,
Just got back in from restoring a trailer for one of my boats. I tried attaching a few shots of the P66D but the system will only accept max file size of 100kb and each of my photos is about 8Mb! I have tried mailing 'oldmarinengine' 2 shots to see if that works. Windows automatically compresses files sent by email - but not through other systems.
I forgot to ask what you have collected Steve? What engines do you have?
Kind regards
John |
Andrew Menkart
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 1073
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 07:44 pm: |
|
John's photos:
 |
George Martin
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 06:33 am: |
|
Not seen that variety before. The unit at the aft end with a sprocket must be for a chain link to a remote fwd/rev control.
The 2 broken trunion parts belong to the cranking shaft and sprocket. This connects to the sprocket behind flywheel. These should be easy to source.
It could have been fitted with a dynastart mounted on head.
A dynamo must have been attached somewhere, you can see the tracks on the flywheel outer. Probably fitted with brackets on the head studs. |
Malcolm Russell Ward
Advanced Member
Username: russell
Post Number: 36
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 02:12 pm: |
|
Interesting servo on the gearbox. I guess it is a bevel drive to allow the engine to be installed in the bowels of the ship and allow remote actuation. Looks a workmanlike mod. Yep, the broken parts are easy enough to replicate if needs be. "What man has done, another can undo/fix." In passing: Judging by the carb, the engine was installed at a very steep angle. I remember the local agents (in NZ) telling the old man, long ago, that the gearboxes run very hot if the installation angle is steep and that one needs to put less oil in it or it overheats the magneto. Best of luck mate. It will make a good shipmate and forget most of the bad stories you will hear about them. They do seem to have what we old Brit motorcycle fanciers call a "Critical need factor". If you need to start it in a hurry, it probably won't. Otherwise it is quite obliging.... |
John Vellam
Member
Username: collectamaniac
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 02:23 pm: |
|
Hello again,
I'm attempting to gradually attach some more P66D photos - this time using a photo editing package - hopefully I will eventually get to the bottom of what is missing on the P66. If this photo transfer works I will send more so that all the detail is there to help.
Thanks |
John Vellam
Member
Username: collectamaniac
Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 03:18 pm: |
|
Hello,
Very interesting observations George and Malcolm. I have included, hopefully, 5 more shots. It was interesting about the carb - I wondered why it was set up at an angle. Also the mod. - this may account for the weird handle with right angle part plus sprocket. I'm disappointed you say there is no dynastart - I thought there was one - have included a pic - need to know what this is. I really need to know which bits to concentrate on buying to get it working. Is it usual for the engines to have various mods. and would they have been done by ST or individuals or both? Thanks. John
|
steven john page
Advanced Member
Username: fairbanks
Post Number: 41
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 03:55 pm: |
|
Hello John,i can see what you mean by bits missing. as far as the gear box leaver is concerned if you didnt want to operate the engine remotely you could always remove the sprockets install the leaver back on to the gearbox.over thepast 3 yrs i have rebuilt quite a few ST,s, but at the moment i have :-
1 x P5ME REBUILT 08.
1 X P55ME NR COMPLETIOM( awaiting electronic ign)
3 X R3MC,S
1 X R3M REBUILT 08.
1 X R3M AWAITING REBUILD.
1 X P66 AWAITING REBUILD
1 X P5LY AWAITING REBUILD
1 X DOLPHIN REBUILT 010. ( direct drive )
I have also got a douglas flat twin gen set part restored, I guess you could say ive got the BUG.I have kept photos of all the engines i have rebuilt over the past few years,and have enjoyed every minute of it. as long as the engines are set up correctly and looked after they will give you years of trouble free service.regards steve |
Malcolm Russell Ward
Advanced Member
Username: russell
Post Number: 37
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 09:10 pm: |
|
NIce looking "gubbins" on the gearbox, John. I could stand corrected by those of superior knowledge, but it doesn't look particularly Stuart with those allen cap screws. Certainly done by an engineer of finesse though and well worth keeping for posterity. Do let us know what is inside it and how it actuates the reverse shaft. Do be careful, when you take it off, that there isn't a shower of bits all over the shop! I am sure the engine will thrive in your ownership. Go4it! |
George Martin
Visitor
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 04:04 am: |
|
The "Dynastart" is in fact the dual points enclosure for the 2 coils. |
George Martin
Visitor
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 04:09 am: |
|
PS the "D" in model No probably denotes "Dynamo" or "dynastart" I suppose. |
David Myers
Senior Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 86
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 04:19 am: |
|
No it is not.. A Dynastart is a STARTER / GENERATOR in one unit. You can see the witness marks on the Flywheel from the 2 belts. The Dynastart is usually mounted with a bracket bolted to the Head.
The Twin Pont enclosure is a LUCAS DISTRIBUTOR. The points fire the coils to produce the spark. You must run a battery to power the coils.. Hence the Dynastart.
TheGearbox is a standard ST but has the shift mechanism from the P55 -P66 ME which has a straight FWD/REV instead of the Tram Handle system. This allowed the fitting of the sprocket to use a remote shift from the bridge so to speak. Take the sprocket off and you will be able to fit a shift lever. The Cables on the Carby also are further witness to being remote mounted.
Dave |
steven john page
Advanced Member
Username: fairbanks
Post Number: 42
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 07:11 am: |
|
Thanks david for that positive reply.
come on guys, if we're going to post info / help on this forum it does help if we know what we are talking about, regards steve. |
John Vellam
Member
Username: collectamaniac
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 08:03 am: |
|
Hello and thank you for all the helpful points and various comments everyone. So far, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think that to start the engine I will need either a manual crank starter, a Dynastart or some other 'updated' setup incorporating maybe an alternator and electronic ignition unit - for example. I prefer original but I'm finding it difficult locating parts. David Schofield is trying to help and I'm talking to him again later about these and other bits. No response from Marlex marine yet. I love my little engine and I'm learning all the time (as Benny Hill used to say.) Will I be best plumbing it in with copper pipes or plastic ones? I see both are commonly used but I have no bending gear for copper. The paltry few Dynastarts that I have seen advertised seem incredibly expensive - does anyone know of a lowish price source? Once I have my manual start handle what will I need to do to get it started please - electrical connections etc? I don't want to foul it up.
Kind regards
John |
Malcolm Russell Ward
Advanced Member
Username: russell
Post Number: 38
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 01:24 am: |
|
Thanks, Steve for the rev up. Take a look at the url http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1163017460036810695XTdRpU which shows a single with the starter and generator as separate entities. I have a pic of a P55ME in THe Motorboat and Yachting Manual of 1954 which looks the same. I've not seen a fore and aft lever on an engine in NZ but I've not seen 'em all yet. It is interesting to see that the turret that the gear lever is on is quite different from the gubbins on John's engine and picks up the distal bearing for the starting handle shaft which threw me. According to a letter I have from the then retired Auckland agent "the fore and aft lever was fitted to the Type 73 gearbox which had different internals." About 15 years ago, I did have a P66C number 30B013 dated March 1971. When I got it it had apparently been retrofitted with a dynastart a similar one to that which you can see on the engine in url http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2689736790036810695lBESsq. this engine had a centrifugal clutch. The flywheel had a groove machined in it so that the v belt of the dynastart could have a meaningful relationship with the flywheel. There was a wiring harness and a little Stuart panel with a push button and ?a switch? I can't remember too much about the engine my father bought in the late '70s. It had coils, and plastic external pipes. I didn't get to see it much because we stopped talking for a time. He had it in an H28. His first Stuart in NZ was a P55M number 20B320 bought new 30 March 1960 and a source of endless problems (I'm sure I've said this before in OME) because the main bearings were machined out of line. It was OK once the agents had their model engineer fitter sort it. Father had a small lifeboat that mother called the Bloody Mary in Littlehampton with a Penguin and then a Stuart. We left in '52 so Stuarts and I have been together for a while... Cheers Russell. |
Malcolm Russell Ward
Advanced Member
Username: russell
Post Number: 39
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 01:31 am: |
|
Whoops. Old geezers do rabbit on. Sorry about that. Take a look at the base of the turret on that first url I gave in my previous post. The spacing of the studs is quite different from those on John's engine. Are you sure that the gubbins on John's engine is an original Stuart fitting, Steve? Got a pic of how it works in there? I remember that the old man's newer Stuart had Bowden cables to the carb and not the traditional interlock mechanism to the tramcar reverse gear mechansm. |
George Martin
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 06:14 am: |
|
David Myers, I did know what I was writing about, thats why I put the "Dynastart" in quotes. John, I assumed had mistaken the points encolsure or the some other component for a dynastart. |
George Martin
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 06:25 am: |
|
I dont think the points enclosure is a distributor, it has no rotor arm etc, it also has 2 coils, so it expects 2 points surely. |
David Myers
Senior Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 87
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 07:53 am: |
|
George, Your post certainley did not read that way! You state that the enclosure is fact!
(The "Dynastart" is in fact the dual points enclosure for the 2 coils.)
It really is a Distributor. It has 2 sets of points that are actuated when the cam is at the required position, which, in turn fires the coil to the appropiate cylinder. Each coil and points are wired separately from the other. No Rotor is required as the HT lead from the coil goes direct to the spark plug.
You can be padantic about the name. ST call the unit a Distributor as did the OEM supplier, Lucas Industries.
Join the ST reflector at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stinfoexchange/ where Full Service Manuals are available in the files section. They give a full description of operation of the units.
I have enclosed 2 pages on the topic.
Cheers, Dave. (Retired Motor Engineer)  |
John Vellam
Member
Username: collectamaniac
Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 10:25 am: |
|
Chaps, Once again many thanks for the useful comments and discussion. Please remember I am the one to blame for any controversy through my almost complete ignorance on boat engines especially ST ones. My apologies! On the positive side I now know what a Dynastart looks like, and more or less what it does, whereas prior to joining this lovely group I didn't. My aim is to learn sufficient to get the engine going then to maintain it correctly. I had not realised that I had purchased an engine that could have various modifications or that could exist in several different forms - now I do. I have to admit I was seduced by the look of the engine and decided I wanted it not only for my boat but to learn something about how it operated to expand my knowledge a little. Unfortunately the majority of my knowledge lies in the medical / scientific / management consultancy sector - not engineering - neither was engineering covered as a subject at school many years ago. My father in law and I rebuilt a 3 main bearing MGB engine about 16 years ago and that is the deepest I have delved into the subject. I'm going to attempt to start the engine by buying the shaft plus cog and starter handle from David, after attempting to wire it up and plumb it. Still reading the 'stinfo' files to gen up on it. I could still do with some photos of a complete 'normal P66D set up with coil ignition and Dynastart, plus completed plumbing, to help my understanding but can't find any. I'll be getting some bits from David S. in just over a week so will learn more then. I have taught myself how to weld and spray quite competently for one of my other hobbies and this will come in useful later. Kind regards. John |
George Martin
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 12:57 pm: |
|
Dave- yes I could have descibed it better. I was just following on from Johns previous post where he was trying to get an answer to his picture of the contact breaker housing (I'll call it that now as ST were calling it that in the pic you kindly posted). The jury's out with me though whether it distributes or not.
John- sorry I went off topic there, but I didn't start it, not intentionally anyway.
The standard P55ME I owned had a different tower arrangement same as most of the other pics around of them. It would be nice to have a remote control to bridge just to be different.
Good luck with the project.
(Also retired motor engineer C & G final) |
Malcolm Russell Ward
Advanced Member
Username: russell
Post Number: 41
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 05, 2010 - 04:19 am: |
|
Wowie!
Saw this just today and in New Zealand. The first time I have seen that reverse change here. It's on a P66 - the self same gubbins on the gearbox that John Vellam showed us on his engine. This one is owned by my old mate Capt John Hager and he has the instruction book which has loose leaf drawings of the gearbox and wiring diagrams for the Dynastart.
He wants to sell it. Just wondering how I could spirit it home without the War Dept finding out. 'Fraid this is a coil ignition job though and they just don't do it for me like magnetos do.
(note from moderator: see pictures in post below.) |
Paul Vecovsky
Member
Username: paulvec
Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, November 06, 2010 - 07:13 am: |
|
hey russell I have a fore & aft gearbox on a P55ME [in NZ] which uses a starter & generator also have a type 73 gearbox on a P66D which uses a dynastart. Info on ST for sale? cheers paul |
Andrew Menkart
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 1085
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 10:10 am: |
|
Russell sent in these photos for me to post for him with is message from 11/5/2010 above.
 |
Dale Kennedy
New member
Username: dale
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2012
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2012 - 07:36 pm: |
|
Hi I have just had my carb serviced an finally got my ST P66 running but somebody said I may possibly have the wrong spark plugs in does anybody know what the correct plugs that I should be using are please |
