| Author |
Message |
    
mas
New member
Username: mas
Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Saturday, July 06, 2019 - 10:36 am: | 
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Newly acquired Kermath single...not sure of the age.
Initial plans are to use sparingly in salt water so I hooked up a 3-way valve on the water intake side of the plumbing for use with a garden hose to aid in flushing after use.
After initial test, I discovered water in the oil..a lot! The hose was turn on only a slight stream and only run a couple of times for testing on the "hard."
I am leaning toward two possible causes:
1. Crack in the cooling passage allowing water into the crankcase.
2. Seal on the water pump impeller driveshaft is worn allowing water to enter.
3. ???? Open to other ideas.
After discovery of water contamination, I drained the oil and pumped out the remainder. I filled the gear case with fresh oil, cycled the motor, then again drained/pumped out. Lastly, I filled with WD40, cycled then drained/pumped then filled with fresh oil.
I am certain that I will need to "pull" the motor before putting into service, but that is not in the plans for a few weeks.
Question: Are these little motor susceptible to water leaking into gear case at the pump? I'm hoping so, because seems the only other cause could be a crack in the block...which would be devastating!
Am I missing something here? |
miro
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 1048
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2019 - 10:15 am: |
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Water pumps on these small engines are usually "outside" the crankcase, so, news ain't good.
It might also be a leak in the head gasket, but not likely.
The leak , if it is caused by a cracked block, will be quite evident. A wet sleeve will probably work on the low compression engine.
Or, if the water pump housing is part of the block, then a careful application of JB Weld to the crack ( Vee'd out etc ), will work.
miro |
mas
New member
Username: mas
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2019 - 01:29 pm: |
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Thank you for the reply.
Not having disassembled, I was thinking/hoping the impeller drive shaft seal might be suspect. There was no evidence of water in the upper cylinder upon spark plug removal and inspection....so maybe that is a little bit of good news? |
jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 1424
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2019 - 06:35 pm: |
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The seal is designed to run under negative pressure, pulling in raw water. If you connected a hose to it you probably flooded the crankcase. I wouldn't pull the engine yet, put the suction hose in a bucket of water and run it. You can use the garden hose in the bucket to make up as it uses. |
mas
Member
Username: mas
Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2019 - 08:35 pm: |
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JB,
Well that info is encouraging! I'll preform the test you suggested in the coming week.
Yes, a directly connect garden hose was a bad idea....the bucket procedure eliminates unwanted hose pressure.
Thank you for pointing that out to me! |
bruce
Senior Member
Username: bruce
Post Number: 678
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2019 - 09:00 pm: |
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The oxymoron term "negative pressure" JB ? Cajun physics ....? |
jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 1425
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 08, 2019 - 04:42 pm: |
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Atmospheric would be 0, above is +, below is -. We used to say a vacuum but the automotive manuals don't mention that any more, a vacuum is nothing, it's really low pressure but when you say pressure people think it's positive. |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2531
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 09, 2019 - 11:52 am: |
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Is the water pump between the flywheel and the timing cover or belt driven on the side?
If it has a belt driven pump the pump seals are not the issue. IF it is the one that is mounted on the timing cover look real good at the timing cover itself. They are known to corrode through. If that is the issue just put a plate over where the old pump was and get a small rubber impeller pump make a bracket and belt drive it. Kermath did this on later models.
You can use the search function at the top of the page and search for Kermath Sea pup and or Universal atomic one. There is info here on OME for these engines.
Hope this helps
Ernie |
mas
Member
Username: mas
Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 - 12:10 am: |
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Thanks for the response...still have not had time to test...but yes, the pumps on the timing cover between the flywheel . |
mas
Member
Username: mas
Post Number: 7
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - 08:17 pm: |
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OK...Did some testing!
Used the "bucket method" to use a vacuum to draw the water instead of pressure from the hose. Result: water in the oil.
I got concerned so I pressurized the the water jackets the 20 psi and a held a static test for 4 hours to confirm NO cracks in the block or head gasket issue...That's good news.
Disassembled the water pump and timing cover to find a broken seal (spring) and a slightly worn water pump shaft...but seems serviceable.
Question: Is the Water pump shaft threaded into the cam? How is it removed?
Anybody have water pump shaft if new seals to not keep the water out...?
I probably should be moving toward an external water pump...but not ready to go that route until other options are exhausted.
Thank you |
brownboat
Member
Username: brownboat
Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2013
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - 08:29 pm: |
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Is the engine a seaPup? |
mas
Member
Username: mas
Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - 08:32 pm: |
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Yes...the motor is the SeaPup...5 HP single cylinder (old style) |
brownboat
Member
Username: brownboat
Post Number: 24
Registered: 02-2013
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - 11:31 pm: |
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I have a bunch of parts for those engines. The water pump is pretty simple. I rebuilt one about 5 years ago including the water pump and a Sea Twin as well. There is a seal between the pump housing and the block. New seals are available. I would have to look up the numbers though. It is a very simple engine. |
mas
Member
Username: mas
Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - 11:38 pm: |
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Thank you!
Yes, the part number for the seal would be great.
Do you by change have a good condition water pump shaft?
Also, do you know how the W.P. shaft is removed form the cam...does it screw in? |
brownboat
Member
Username: brownboat
Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2019 - 09:35 pm: |
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My notes aren't the greatest. I have reference to a CR11923 seal, CR3094 inner seal. CR stands for Chicago Rawhide. I am not positive on how the shaft is engaged. I think it is a slotted shaft at that end and just pulls out when the water pump is removed. The 3094 needs to be modified to use. The front crank seal is CR1111.
I bought this stuff in 2013 so prices are probably quite different from then.
Jim |
brownboat
Member
Username: brownboat
Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2019 - 11:18 pm: |
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I sorted through another box of parts for a pump drive shaft. I located a used on that is part of a camshaft with cam drive gear attached. The pump shaft appears to be a press fit. The booklet doesn't have enough detail to show a full drive shaft. Sorry for the mis-information on the last post. |
mas
Member
Username: mas
Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2019 - 11:41 pm: |
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OK Great...I'll look to trying to remove the shaft with a little gentle heat to expand the cam shaft slightly.
My timing gears are aluminum...is this standard?
Also, in your box of parts, do you by chance have a extra oil pan you might be willing to get rid of??? |
mas
Member
Username: mas
Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2019 - 01:37 am: |
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OK...great news!
I replaced the water pump seal and ran the motor for about 25 min....no water in oil.
So for now, I'll call it fixed. It will need constant attention and consideration for conversion. :-)
I did not attempt to remove the pump shaft...saved that for another day! |
brownboat
Member
Username: brownboat
Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2013
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2019 - 10:11 pm: |
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NOS timing gears are aluminum. I don't have a SeaPup oil pan. |
mas
Member
Username: mas
Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2019 - 01:27 pm: |
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Did a second sea trial yesterday...no leaking of water into oil.
Nice day on the water putting around! |
