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chris_spring
Member
Username: chris_spring
Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2019
| | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2019 - 08:48 am: | 
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Elsewhere you will see the topics 1915 Gidley, and Adams. As well, if you go to YouTube and search 1915 Gidley, several videos will pop up.
I have now been able to put about 15 hours run time on the Adams. It has taken me awhile to become more comfortable with it, and I am not sure that I have it right, even now.
It starts easily although the carb float valve will sometimes fail to close causing flooding. I attribute that to internal wear of the original parts. To mitigate that, I certainly shut the fuel off every time I shut it down. I also start it with the fuel off, then switch the fuel on once the motor is running. And if it is going to happen, that is when the flooding occurs. A tip from any of you would be helpful in that regard.
The motor idles well and can easily be shifted from forward to reverse.
It seems to have a narrow range in both mixture and timing in order to get it to run without thumping in the crankcase, or starting to vibrate. And just to get this out of the way, the drive shaft is straight. The propellor is a 10x8.
WRT the mixture portion, leaning of the mixture will produce thumping from within the crankcase, richening it will smoothen that, but if richened too much, within a few seconds result in a decreased rpm. So I run it right in the middle. An inspection of the spark plug shows that it is damp, but not building carbon. I am using premium gasoline and non-detergent SAE30 engine oil at a ratio of 25:1.
For now I'm attributing the vibration as an ignition timing issue, although it could be due to internal engine wear. In operation, as soon as the motor leaves that sweet spot and gives a hint of vibration, I back the timing off a touch and it runs smoothly, albeit at a peak rpm of about 700.
I have a copy of Barry Millar's data on the St. Lawrence engine. I may even call him. However, I have not been able to find anything WRT fuel/oil mixture ratios that may provide insight.
Elsewhere, Miro has advised that he runs his motors on about a 25:1 mix. He has also written that some go as high as 16:1 in order to ease starting. I have followed his advice WRT 25:1.
My concerns at the moment are the relatively low peak rpm, and what I consider a high fuel consumption. On 2 1/2 hp I had expected a burn of about 1 litre per hour. Mine is easily twice that.
And therefore my question to you is this. Would changing the fuel/oil mixture to say 30:1 be helpful in providing better combustion, thereby decreasing fuel consumption without risking damage to the motor?
I am hoping this post is comprehensible. As I said at the outset, the motor starts easily, idles well, reverses easily, and when set to the narrow range of timing and mixture runs smoothly at and below about 700 rpm. I can live with it as is, however, I am hoping to take it on a 125 mile trip in August. Unless I can get that fuel consumption down, I may have to re-think that since I don't want to have to tanker fuel or spend half the trip looking for it.
Any help you can provide would be appreciated.
Cheers! |
bcm
Senior Member
Username: bcm
Post Number: 97
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2019 - 09:20 am: |
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Chris,
Suggest you investigate float valve leaking. If the valve leaks at a rate greater than engine requires then excess fuel will leak at the fuel nozzle into the fuel stream.
The result will be as you describe, excess fuel use, unable to properly set needle.
This is covered in SUBJECT 13.
Here is a link to information about this issue.
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3433/101261.html
Barry |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2525
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2019 - 01:14 pm: |
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Chris,
1 What is the rated RPM on the engine?
700 seems pretty fast to me. The fact that you say it smooths out below 700 is indicative of that. Have you had it apart? Does it have counterweights on the crankshaft? If it doesn't I for sure would not run it that fast.
2 Ignition timing will NOT cause vibration unless it is related to pre ignition. Too far advanced.
3 These old engines have really low volumetric efficiency. Trying to calculate actual fuel consumption is most likely not going to come out very close.
4 Oil mixture in the area you are using won't make much if any change in consumption. I always used 24/1 since it was what I had around for my classic OMC outboards. I played around with it some and it really wasn't worth the trouble.
5 Float level, Schebler says to take the top off the carb and with the fuel on there should just be a bubble of fuel at the opening of the main jet. I have found that this is too high. I have for the last 15 to 20 years set the float level as low as I can by bending the float arm. I never had any luck adjusting the float level by moving the parts of the float needle valve.
My fantail would have s slight intermittent misfire running at cruise with the fuel mixture set where it ran the best and the spark plug would be tan in color. To get rid of the misfire it was defiantly running too rich. I did try a cobbled together 100 KV ignition system and the misfire went away. I decided that the plain old simple Ford T coil was fine and the really minor misfire was acceptable.
Bottom line is that you are using the boat and having fun with it!
Hope this helps
Ernie |
chris_spring
Member
Username: chris_spring
Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2019
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - 07:22 am: |
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Thank you for your responses.
WRT setting the float level. Understanding that when I acquired the boat, as far as I know, it was in original, un-touched condition, yet I had a float valve problem. I attributed that to the 104 year old cork float. Several efforts later, I replaced the float, finally having to do a minor modification in order to get the float level down to where the carb wouldn't flood...most of the time. I'm pretty much convinced that my intermittent float valve problem is due to poor seating of the valve itself. I will investigate that further. I will try to clean up the valve and seat to see it that helps. Whereas the float and valve works not unlike a teeter totter, for the heck of it, I am debating adding a small amount of weight to the valve end which, in effect would lower the level of fuel in the bowl slightly and perhaps give me sooner and more positive float valve seating. It seems to me to be worth a try. Ernie thanks for your advice WRT 700 rpm. I try to avoid vibration. Adams motors are rare. I'd hate to damage this one.
Cheers! |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2526
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - 07:34 am: |
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Yes do be nice to the Adams. It is a cute little engine.
Maybe try a prop with more pitch. That will drop your RPM and most likely keep the hull speed close to what you have.
It really is great to see an old engine and boat in use.
Enjoy it
Ernie |
bcm
Senior Member
Username: bcm
Post Number: 98
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - 12:43 pm: |
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Chris,
Check the image that shows a slot in the Schebler flange. This drains excess fuel . When I operate my engine for about an hour about 1 ml of fuel collects in the tray that is positioned under the slot. This is normal and not caused by leaking. I have found that some carbs do not have this slot so I suspect slot may not be original. Ernie may know.
I suggest you check your carb for excessive leakage and determine if the cause is float setting or float valve seating, or both. First be sure yours has a slot. Remove carb cover, place a container under carb, drain bowl then observe what happens when fuel is turned on. Is leak at the slot a drip or flood. Observe if fuel rise tends to submerge float.
A drip might be ok if engine consumes fuel at a rate that is greater than the drip. If a flood then correction is required. However it's much preferred to not experience any leakage.
Measuring fuel level relative to nozzle requires a bit of ingenuity, it's a worthwhile exercise; at least 1/8" is a must.
Did you inspect the check valve positioned between carb and crankcase to ensure its condition and does not leak. If it leaks even just a small amount this should be repaired.
Barry
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chris_spring
Member
Username: chris_spring
Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2019
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - 01:14 pm: |
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Hi Barry.
I noticed the check valve is in fact leaking a bit. Yesterday, for the first time I could hear it closing when I rotated the flywheel to prime. During the reno I was hesitant to try to remove it since it appeared to be on there very tight.
I re-visted the float level. The Monarch carb is slightly different than the Schebler in the linkage between the float and valve. Today I was able to lower the float level further which I am sure will be helpful. It was likely too high before. I am at a loss to explain why I would have to do that if the carb hadn't been touched.
I also added a small weight to the top of the valve. That too seems to be helpful. We'll see.
The Monarch has the same slot shown in your photo.
What do I need to know about that check valve? I don't want to damage anything trying to get it out.
Cheers! |
bcm
Senior Member
Username: bcm
Post Number: 99
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - 02:19 pm: |
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Chris,
I'm interested in the result of the carb fill test as suggested in prior post. Please post result.
How do you know that check valve is leaking?
Barry |
chris_spring
Member
Username: chris_spring
Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2019
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - 06:33 pm: |
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Today I put about 3 1/2 hrs on the Gidley. Overall, I'm going to call it a win. There was no carb flooding. And my initial calculation is that fuel consumption has been reduced perhaps by 1/3.
Now here's the thing. Barry asked if the check valve was leaking. I said yes. As a matter of fact, a couple of day ago, while rotating the flywheel I could hear it close and there was a slight hiss. I had never heard that before, but there it was. I just checked it again. I can't hear anything, no metallic sound. No hiss.
As well, early on I could hear blowby. It was noticeable, but on a 104 year old motor that probably hadn't run in 50-60 years, what might you expect? I have now noticed the motor has more compression and no perceivable blowby. Perhaps a little run time was what that motor needed.
I'm going to call it a win.
Cheers! |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2527
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2019 - 05:31 am: |
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sounds good
If it works don't fix it
Things have most likely loosened up and re seated. Like the piston rings.
Check valves sometimes stick too.
Enjoy it
Ernie |
miro
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 1043
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 09:06 pm: |
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Chris, nice to see the time you've been putting on the boat and motor. These engines are definitely NOT a set-and-forget operation. There's always something to tweak.
Maybe someday you'll work up the courage to totally re-do the motor, but until that time comes, keep it running.
As for fuel economy, these engines probably burn only about 60% - 65% of the fuel that goes into the carb because they are slow running and are usually over-cooled. But that's how they work.
Ernie's point about things loosening and re-fitting moving parts is spot on.
So, you are doing the right thing - run it often.
Miro |
chris_spring
Member
Username: chris_spring
Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2019
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 06:35 am: |
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Thanks Ernie and Miro.
I put 2 1/2 hours on it the other day. The fuel consumption was 2L per hour which lines up with the burn on the June 12th run.
There are still a few details to attend to but overall I'm pleased.
Cheers! |
chris_spring
Member
Username: chris_spring
Post Number: 20
Registered: 02-2019
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 06:38 am: |
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Thanks Ernie and Miro.
I put 2 1/2 hours on it the other day. The fuel consumption was 2L per hour which lines up with the burn on the June 12th run.
There are still a few details to attend to but overall I'm pleased.
I have spoken to Patrick Keefe about overhauling the motor this winter. I'm still not sure what I want to do about that. If an overhaul bought the boat another 104 years what is there to think about? For now I'm un-decided.
Cheers! |
miro
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 1044
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2019 - 01:26 pm: |
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Chris, run the boat for the summer and see how you feel about it in the autumn.
With that much running, you'll know what to do.
Other folks I know "re-did" their engine even though it was OK and did not have a good experience.
It takes someone with know-how, experience with old engines and historical sensitivity to do the thing right. And you'll only have one shot at getting it right.
By autumn if it ain't broke, why think about "fixing" it.
miro |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2528
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2019 - 07:02 pm: |
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Quote from one of the guys on here that really is one of the experts.
"If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is"
No it isn't my quote. Wish it was...
Have a good one
Ernie |
chris_spring
Member
Username: chris_spring
Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2019
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2019 - 07:35 pm: |
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Thanks for the "if it ain't broke" advice. I know it is good advice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyxjfN8yWpg
Monday morning bright and early, a friend and I are going to haul the Gidley over to Beveridge's Lock. There is a launch right there. From there we plan to cruise to Perth for lunch. We can tie up right in the centre of town. We'll come back same day. It should take about 3 hrs run time.
Cheers! |
