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Message |
    
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2054
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 20, 2015 - 02:28 pm: | 
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Real original Termatt and Monahan. Even good compression.
Needs some timer parts and an oil line from the oiler to the crankcase.
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billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 620
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2015 - 07:06 pm: |
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that is wonderful. |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 517
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2015 - 07:06 am: |
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Nice original one! All you need is a muffler and a cover for the points. Interesting how they made the coupling on that one. Also has four bolt intake cover & four bolt inspection cover on the other side. Some of the Cailles had four bolt intake cover similar to that. Ernie is that another edition to your collection?
Think I got the Literature below from Richard Durgee or Bill Schaller.
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dick
Advanced Member
Username: dick
Post Number: 32
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2015 - 10:45 am: |
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Ernie, thanks for the pictures. I'm not sure I understand why the oiler feeds into the crankcase. On mine, there is a single oiler that feeds only into the intake.
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 518
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2015 - 01:26 pm: |
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Dick,
There were different configuration or versions of these engines. This engine I believe has a disk with a lip rolled on it and attached to the crankshaft. The oil line coming from the drip oiler would drip oil into the lip on the disk and centrifugal force from the crankshaft turning would cause the oil to be force into the lip and through a small hole that lubricated the lower con-rod bearing. Second line coming out of the drip oiler lubricated the cylinder and upper con-rod bearing. Some of these engines had a greaser on the end of the crankshaft to lubricate the lower con-rod bearing. Crankshaft had a small hole drilled through the whole length of one side of the crank and another hole on a angle to the lower rod bearing. The two cycle Detroit engines also had these different versions. Appears that the lower con-rod greaser was only used on early manufactured engines done away with it on the later models. I could be wrong about that oil line because I do not have much experience with T&M engines but I that is the way the Detroits are and I think it is the same. See what Ernie has to say about it. |
dick
Advanced Member
Username: dick
Post Number: 33
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2015 - 03:21 pm: |
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I'm sure you are right - I wasn't thinking too far. I didn't know about the Detroits, but I believe some of the Gray marines had such a feature as well. Thanks for the memory bump. |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 519
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2015 - 05:51 pm: |
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No problem with the memory bump I think we all have that from time to time. Ernie just give me a bump a few weeks ago on the Detroit timer & governor system and I'm normally fairly knowledgeable about the Detroit's but I just did not remember a certain detail until he reminded me. I got the governor & timer system for the marine confused with the stationary. |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 521
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 02, 2015 - 12:13 pm: |
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Literature showing T&M with lubrication of lower con-rod by oil. Photo of T&M with lubrication of lower con-rod by greaser.
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dick
Advanced Member
Username: dick
Post Number: 34
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2015 - 01:44 pm: |
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So interesting. Mine has the oiler feed directly into the intake, not the boss near the base of the cylinder. And there is a tapped hole in the end of the crankshaft, but it is a dead end - goes nowhere? |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 522
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2015 - 03:13 pm: |
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Dick, I'm not sure if there was a version like yours ever produced by the factory or not. Very possible I guess. Below is some literature showing the grease port version.
port. |
HarryN
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2015 - 02:02 am: |
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I have a T&M single cylinder marine engine nearly identical to Ernies. The only difference is my Lunkenheimer is screwed directly into the cylinder casting. Mine has no cast iron plate there. The brass timer cover on mine is .050" thick with a small hole in its center (for oiling?). The spring-loaded timer lever appears to be a kill switch.
I recently found what I believe is the serial number on it. The only screw holes for a nameplate are on the exhaust condenser. The number 1141 is stamped into the very top of the water pump and also in the hub of the flywheel under the brass cup. My crank is not drilled through where this brass cup screws on. The bolt hole is a dead-end. Can't seem to add pics. |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2078
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2015 - 07:44 am: |
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Harry,
Click my name to the left for my e-mail. Send me the pics and I will post them for you.
Ernie |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 524
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2015 - 08:19 am: |
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Dick,
Do you have any photo's of your T&M engine you could post? Full view all four sides? |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 525
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2015 - 09:16 am: |
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Here's a T&M advert from a 1904 Cycle Automobile Trade Journal, anyone ever see this? Do you think that is a solid flywheel or sheet metal attached some how? Never seen a T&M with a solid flywheel.
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dick
Advanced Member
Username: dick
Post Number: 38
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2015 - 10:04 am: |
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Johnny, here are some pictures. It is currently apart for cleaning, etc., and I apologize for the paint job. The timer is a Cuno and not original. As can be seen, the connector between the eccentric and the water pump has been brazed and is badly aligned, so if anyone has a spare I would be interested. Thanks.
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 526
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2015 - 12:47 pm: |
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Dick,
That will make a nice running little engine once you get the water pump arm fixed and a muffler for it. I might be making a few of the water pump arms here in the future if I can not find one for my engine. However they will be for a Detroit so I do not know if it will work on a T&M. I noticed that it looks like your engine has a oil port up on the cylinder. You may want to take the inspection cover off and disconnect the lower con-rod and look to see if there is a lubricating hole in the rod journal. If there is then that means that there is either another oil port somewhere on the crankcase or there should be a greaser on the end of the crankshaft. There is a good chance that someone drilled and tapped the hole on the intake and added the drip oiler there. However some of the engine companies did manufacture engines with drip oilers mounted to the intake like yours. |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2079
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2015 - 07:58 pm: |
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Here are Harry's Pics
Harry can you take a pic looking directly down into the timer so I can see what I am missing?
Thanks |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2080
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 09:12 am: |
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FYI
My engine at the start of this of this thread has numbers like Harryn's. I mine is 1037.
Even the Gib key is numbered.
I will have to look the engine over to see if those numbers are anywhere else.
Now I am curious is this the engine S/N or assembler/employee number for piece work pay? |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2081
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 09:20 am: |
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Pics from the engine at the top of this thread
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2082
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 09:25 am: |
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Timer pics from Harry N
Thanks Harry
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2083
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 09:27 am: |
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By the way the engine in the middle of the thread above with the braze on the top of the cylinder was mine at one time. I wonder where it went??? |
jeffk
Member
Username: jeffk
Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 11:45 am: |
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Ernie,
I got it off of you 3-5 yrs. ago at Calvert. Now it's in Louisianna somewhere. |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 621
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 01:31 pm: |
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I went and looked at the T and M I have, and I am probably going to have to scrap it because it is missing the ignition. Or, maybe Ernie can send me enough Hi Res pictures so I can make one.
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2085
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 01:45 pm: |
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Bill,
All the pics you need once I take it apart so I can make the missing parts.
Do you have any numbers on the flywheel hub or the plug on the top of the water pump/ |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2087
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 02:31 pm: |
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Jeff K's first style (oldest) T and M
From the numbers this is the highest number (so far) and the oldest engine so I am going to "assume" that they are employee piecework numbers and not serial numbers.
However this being said just my 2 cents worth.
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 534
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 07:58 pm: |
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Wow! that's a nice old T&M with the cylinder and exhaust manifold all one piece. Some one posted pics of a engine similar to that a while back and I saved the photo's. I think everything is the same except it has a timer lever where Jeff's has a stanchion type timer. I will post the pic's below. I do not recall who the owner is. I went back and did a search on this forum trying to find the thread and discussion but had no luck finding it.
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2088
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 10:04 pm: |
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I think Richard Durgee has one too. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3585
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 09:29 am: |
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*
J.D. Termaat & L.J.Monahan were early Pioneer Makers with patents dating 1896, Pat # 680,422 ignition 1901, sold out in 1902 to Western Malleable & Grey Iron Company. of Milwaukee. Wisconsin.
1903 Started Termaat & Monahan Company first engines had solid flywheels, removable heads and exhaust condenser cast with cylinder. 1905 came
headless design with the detachable exhaust condensers that Monahan patd in 1906.
Termaat & Monahan Company made many different designs of engs primarily marine but also stationary farm type engs and two cycle engines were made for pumps and electric generators.
This engine I believe was called a " 2V" type and has a unique timed intake with a poppet valve, and designed to run at precise RPMs, this one is missing its timer but looks to be a marine application ??
* |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3586
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 10:46 am: |
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*
June 1904 ad , I believe this is the first design
Termaat & Monahan marine engine ?
* |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 535
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 02:40 pm: |
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Another neat old T&M, I was not aware that they made the one piece cylinder & exhaust manifold like that. Thought it was Gile or another company. Thanks for posting the pic's & info. I am going to be putting a section on my Detroit website for T&M engines simply because some of their later model engines looked similar to the Detroit's. Below are the links to the start of the stationary sections. It's just going to be photo's & literature and maybe a little history about the Company.
http://www.antiquengines.com/T&M_Stationary_Photos.htm
http://www.antiquengines.com/T&M_Stationary_Literature.htm |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2288
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 01:01 pm: |
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Finally made the timer parts for the engine at the top of this post. It is very original and I didn't clean anything that I didn't have to. I made the parts based on pics above and what I had on hand.
This engine was complete except for the timer parts and the tube from the oiler to the crankcase. It is now ready to run.
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robert
Senior Member
Username: robert
Post Number: 707
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 03:58 pm: |
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I see quite a few bolts in the ends of crankshafts in these photos. Missing grease cups and big ends without grease, or was that feature dropped? |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2289
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2016 - 07:00 am: |
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I guess it depended on the design engineer at the time.
Some had a way to grease the rod from the crank end and some didn,t.
I always stick a piece of welding rod in the hole to see how deep it is. Shallow gets a bolt, real deep is most likely for lubrication.
No matter what I always use pre-mix gas and oil.
I just picked up a 2 cylinder Ferro and the rods are greased from the center main. The crankshaft is drilled just like a modern engine with pressure oiling. |
