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obtained by death in family

Old Marine Engine » One and Two Cylinder Gas Inboards » obtained by death in family « Previous Next »

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yohan
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
A rare Saginaw twin-cylinder prototype marine racing engine,with twin vertical cylinders of approx. 5" bore single 18 1/2 dia. spoked flywheel, vertical crank and beveled gear-driven side-shaft timer,high-tension spark plug ignition;cross scavening intake manifold,twin Schebler carbs.,nichel plated cylinder heads,plated crankcase inspection covers,two- cycle design manufactored by the Saginaw Engine Works, MA, ca 1910, for protype racing purposes. Have been told it is a prototype to the engine that won the first Port Huron to Mackinac Island powerboatboat race. Will send pictures
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andrew
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I spoke with this gentleman on the phone a few weeks ago about this engine, and I suggested that he post some information here on the board in hopes of learning more about it. I couldn't find much information on it, but hopefully someone else here can.

You can send pictures to me and I will post them here, or follow the directions in the formatting section on the left.

Regards,
Andrew
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Scott Peters
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I just checked the Saginaw, Michigan, city directories from 1903-1919 for Saginaw Engine Company and found nothing. Are we sure this is the correct name on the engine? Several other manufacturers were working in the area at the same time (Erd Motor Co., Pierce-Budd in Bay City, National Engineering Co., etc.) I would be willing to do some additional lookups if there is some more information.
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Keith
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 05:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I have a two cylinder "Stork" engine that I believe was made in Saginaw. I will have to look in the storage building to confirm.
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yohan
Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 07:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Picture of proposed Saginaw engine will be available on monday. Snow removal is slowing that process down. Speculation of the race discribed may shed some light, if someone has any info on it. Also the state being Mass. not Mich.
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richarddurgee
Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 08:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Possible

"SAGAMORE MOTOR WORKS" West Lynn,MA
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yohan
Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Picture Attached

\image
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yohan
Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 03:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Sorry trying to figure this out!

This a picture of engine: \image(picture1)

Another picture of engine: \image(picture2)
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Yohan
Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 03:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I will email them to Andrew....
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andrew
Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Here are the pics..

1

2
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yohan
Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
any info Sagamore Motor Works or Saginaw Engine Works. Can't find any markings or name plate from what I can see
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richarddurgee
Posted on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Yohan,

Sagamore Motor works is listed in 1913 index of marine eng makers. They list several engs, let me know bore and stroke of above eng and i will see if it matches one in the list, might be a start to
see if specs are the same ?? I have looked through a lot of info and not one ad of this maker do I find yet !!
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yohan
Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Richard,

Engine is a 2 stroke with 5" bore. Maybe being a racing engine this thing was pieced together or customized. How about any history on the so-called Port Huron to Mackinac race as discribed in first e-mail.
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richarddurgee
Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
4 7/8 is closest bore in standard engs built by Sagamore in 1913 ??

What was exact year and month of that race ?
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Keith
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 08:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about what looks like a crossover transfer port?
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Richard Day
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I subscribed to National Fishermen for many years and back in the 1970s they had an article about the Sagamore Motor Works in Lynn Ma. In the article they had a comment there was still one engine in a crate that had never been shipped and they didn't know what to do with it. I picked up the phone and call the company listed in the article and asked if I could have it and they said no because the son of one of the company's founders had decided he wanted to keep it. Well I tried.
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richarddurgee
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I have also been thinking about that manifold system since the pictures were posted.
thinking out loud here from just looking at pictures, engine probably a racing design, two port. the engineers of the time had induction formulas that boiled down to a large volume and high pressure of gasoline mixture at intake port meant more power.this external transfer or induction manifold would seem to do both,large capacity smooth flow , large ports. the idea of using the other cylinders crankcase mixture by cross feeding it is still a bit of a mystery to me ??
the manifold casting appears to be very well made, the bosses cast onto cylinders to support carbs and manifold also seem well made.
Great old marine engine, an engineering and historical relic of the era ! Comments ??
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yohan
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I'm considering selling if the price is right!
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Ernie
Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 08:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I think Dick is in the right direction about the ports. If one were to look inside I bet the front cylinder fed the rear etc. This most likely provided additional charge pressure to assist in scavaging the cylinder. Getting a full gas exchange on a 2 stroke is a problem due to time. There is a power stroke every 360 deg. So on a 2 stroke the 4 phases (intake compression power and exhaust) have to take place in that 360 deg. Things happen fast! On a 4 stroke you have 720 deg crank rotation to get the 4 phases completed. I would love to see it apart or see the drawings for it.
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Bob Meek
Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Does anyone have any idea what the value would be on a Pierce budd Brass bound Bastard. Is there a record of any sales of such an engine? Thanks bob
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Matthew Stork
Visitor
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I know nothing about old engines. But I found this site while looking for family tree info. My great grandfather started and owned Stork Engineering Company in Saginaw in the early 1900's and I know they made innovative engine designs but have no idea if they made this one. A family story has them making early marine engines and then selling the patents to a marine-specific engineering firm. Does anyone know anything about Stork Engineering Co.?
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 821
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 08:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Mathew

Not a lot of info but here is what I have.
Keith B.s Stork twin with Saginaw tag.

STag

Stwin

I have "Stork Motor Co. Saginaw in 1909.
By 1911 Stork motors are advertised by "DeFoe Boat & Motor Works" Bay City, Michigan. DeFoe is in a 1913 marine engine mfg list.
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andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew

Post Number: 1182
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Matthew and Richard,

Maybe you have both seen this, but Fred Stork is mentioned on a DeFoe Shipbuilding History Site:
quote:

...made an arrangement with Fred Stork of Saginaw, to sell Stork motors in connection with the knock-down boat business and used and sold many of them from Stork's 3 horsepower 2 cycle to his heavy duty 6 cylinder 7-1/2 x 9, 4 cycles. They were, for their time, very good motors.

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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 822
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 08:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Thanks Andrew,

I hadn't seen this site before. Good information is hard to come by on some of these old rather obscure Marine Engine Makers.
Richard
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richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 448
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 10:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Seems to me Dan Thomas, up in Goffstown, NH. has a very complete single cylinder Sagamore with its unique igniter enclosure near the top of the cylinder.

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