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Message |
    
bishops_cover
New member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 07:16 pm: | 
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Hello,
I'm in Newfoundland Canada and I'm new to the old engine hobbie. I've aquired a 4 HP Imperial single cylinder that I know nothing about. It's a little rough but my goal is a restoration to working condition. I'd like it in a boat some day.
Any information or help you could give me in identifying and repairing this thing would be appreciated. I don't even know if there's anything missing.
It is an Imperial Gasoline Marine Motor built in Charlottown PEI Canada. It's plate says HP 4.N and No. 6591. I'll try some pics...
http://i39.tinypic.com/flbsds.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/s5i6fk.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/o5t8ua.jpg |
john_archibald
Senior Member
Username: john_archibald
Post Number: 105
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 08:16 pm: |
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Bishop's Cover just south of Upper Island Cove,
Have relatives in Harbour Grace. Charles Archibald. The engine looks like it is all there. Should be a great restoration. However, I have no knowledge of it myself directly. Just Atlantic and Acadia engines. You will need a low voltage coil and a battery to run it.
Archibald
Northfield, Minnesota
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bishops_cover
New member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 08:33 pm: |
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Hi John,
Yes that's the place. I actually live in Harbour Grace, that's where my wife if from. My in-laws are the Crocker's. My wife knows your family...small world.
I thought there was a carburator missing??? It would be great if it's all there.
Nice to meet you John, we truely live in a small world.
Wayne Smith |
john_archibald
Senior Member
Username: john_archibald
Post Number: 106
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:09 pm: |
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Wayne,
Art Crocker used to shoot off the shotgun at the Harbour Grace Regatta on Lady Lake in my father's time, but you probably knew that and your wife is probably related. The white man's oldest organized sport in the New World. A fine tradition. Older than baseball!
I may have to look at the pictures again. Forgot to notice if the carburetor was on there; got going too fast. If not, they are not too hard to find, especially on The Rock. More folks may chime in here from the list. A Schebler D is most likely the model and the size is determined by the pipe threads which should be evident on the engine.
Does the engine turn over? If she's stuck you may want to take it easy for a spell and go to a local "expert" unless you know how to deal with that yourself. Start soaking her down with either WD-40 or Kroil if you can get it down there. Hit everything with it. Leave the flywheel on the crankshaft. It will be fine untouched.
There used to be a good mechanic called Ray Hunt, but he has probably gone off to other worlds by now. A lad such as he would know how to deal with getting that engine unstuck, etc. Do you know Bill Short? He may know someone who can help in that department. He sails the Newfoundland Pearl. He may also know someone who may have a Schebler.
Failing that, give Charles Archibald ( Bear's Cove ) a ring and he may have a lead or two.
Good luck with the rebuild.
John Archibald
Northfield, Minnesota
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solarrog
Senior Member
Username: solarrog
Post Number: 357
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:34 pm: |
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I have an Imperial out here in California that I bought off ebay about 5 years ago, They resemble each other on some items, Mine has the gear driven timer instead of the system yours has
Mine came from Canada |
john_archibald
Senior Member
Username: john_archibald
Post Number: 107
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:42 pm: |
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Wayne,
Yes, you are missing the carburetor. It screws onto that lower pipe fitting on the crankcase. The size of that fitting is the "size" carburetor that you need. Probably a 1-inch pipe is my guess.
This engine is very similar to an Acadia.
Regards,
Archibald
Northfield, Minnesota
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bishops_cover
New member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 06:36 am: |
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Thanks for the info and leads. I'm going to start looking for a carb now. I plan on freeing up the engine myself, doing the work is part of the allure for me. Its pretty rough, I found in a roadside ditch!!! LOL!!! I will take pics and post my progress. I appreciate all advice, thanks.
Arch Crocker was my wifes great uncle. I don't know Art Crocker. |
richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 756
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 08:53 am: |
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Suspect it was used in salt water. don't let the water jacket dry out or the salt will exspand in the cast iron inside the water jacket and cause it to exspand and crack just like freezing water. fill the water jacket full of anti freeze until you are ready to work on it. Drain off the anti freeze and put it back once you are done with what ever you are doing. but don't let it stay empty long. Once you get the engine running always store it with anti freeze until you want to run it then draw it off and run it. Put it back when done. It has a low tension make and break ignition system. Andrew sells the Palmer Handbook which should answer your questions regarding engines like this. Hope this helps. |
bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 09:54 am: |
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Thanks for the info. I'm glad it's a Make and Break, I thought it was Jump Spark. Who is Andrew? |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2105
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 01:04 pm: |
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*
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/store/index.html
** |
bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 02:23 pm: |
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Thanks, I'm going to get that Palmer engine hand book. Looks helpful. |
john_archibald
Senior Member
Username: john_archibald
Post Number: 108
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 07:08 pm: |
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Oh, I thought it was Art Crocker. Arch Crocker sounds right.
I can send a digital copy of an Acadia Manual which should help you figure a lot of this engine out. Will send tomorrow or much later tonight.
Archibald
Northfield, Minnesota
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bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 114
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 07:18 pm: |
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Good project engine. It couldn't have been laying in the ditch too long with that much paint still on it. When you get a chance, could you post a photo of the tag? We're trying to figure out some of the connections between some of these East Coast engine manufacturers.
Thanks for posting.
Blair |
bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 06:40 am: |
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Thank you John. I'm sure that will help alot. I will post a pic of the tag asap bgos. I actually took one originally but it was of poor quality. |
bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 07:56 pm: |
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Hello John, do you need my e-mail address to send the manual? Let me know. Thanks! |
john_archibald
Senior Member
Username: john_archibald
Post Number: 109
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 11:53 pm: |
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Wayne,
I'll have to scan it again. Can't find it on disk right now.
This weekend I'll have something to you.
Archibald
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bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 06:59 am: |
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Thank you very much John, I really appreciate the help. I will try my best to post a pic of the tag today. |
bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 08:03 pm: |
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Well, I hope I can fix marine engines better than I take pictures. I tried several times today to take a pic of the tag but they all were illegible.
I've started dismantling. The water jacket is clogged with rusty scales and dirt. The piston is seized but the crank shaft and connecting rod etc look pretty good. I'm trying to get the head off the piston now. I'm using Sea Foam penetrating oil. Seems to be working good. I'll keep you posted. |
bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 06:58 am: |
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Any tips on cleaning out a severely blocked up water jacket??? |
boatbum
Member
Username: boatbum
Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 10:39 am: |
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Boy I've been scrounging the wrong ditches!! Nice find, have fun restoring her and by golly get that engine in a boat!! INMHO that's the best way to enjoy an old marine engine.
Keith |
bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 10:53 am: |
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I actually was changing a flat on my mother-in-law's car for her and saw this thing just lying in the drain. I went back the next day and got it. My long term plan is to actually build a traditional Newfoundland motor boat for the engine, correct to what it would have been in when new. Nostalgic. I plan to find a local builder who is willing to mentor me so I can learn the process. Exciting hobby if it works out!!! |
boatbum
Member
Username: boatbum
Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 11:00 am: |
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Check out my "little" engine!! Yep boating all the way, if you take your time it will all work out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wCfDTI6Nxw
Keith |
bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 05:58 am: |
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That's awesome. |
jim_parrott
New member
Username: jim_parrott
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 10:13 pm: |
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Wayne,
That is a nice find. I have a 5 HP make and break, the tag reads HP 5 D No. 6275 and has 4 & 7 on the propeller blade image on the tag. I am trying to figure out if that is the year of manufacture. Doe your engine have the same type tag? Click the link below for a sales ad and and brief history. http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/eppp-archive/100/200/301/ic/can_digital_colle ctions/fisheries_then/history_tech/motor.asp |
jim_parrott
New member
Username: jim_parrott
Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 10:25 pm: |
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Wayne,
I just figured out picture posting/resizing.  |
bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 13
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 06:08 am: |
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Hello Jim,
Thank you for the info. Yes, my engine has the exact same tag. Mine is a 4.N. I wonder what the letter designates. My prop number is 48. I thought the factory burnt down in 1947??? Could you post some pics of the complete engine? What type carburator does it have? Is yours running? |
jim_parrott
New member
Username: jim_parrott
Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 07:56 am: |
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Wayne,
If we compare by serial numbers my 47 and your 48 may be year models. Mr John Bently made a model of a 5HP Model A jump spark and he seems to think that my 47 is the year model. I guess mine is a 5HP Model D made in 1947. He also said that the make and break engines were later models. See link to thread earlier this year suggest the company was active to the 60's and link to see John's model. If anyone else has tags like these maybe we can compare markings to see if this trend confirms these beliefs.
I ran mine yesterday for the first time in a few years. It started right up, ran good, but I do need to do a little igniter refurbishing due to leaking. It has a Schrebler carburator model ?.
Having pic resizing problems today? Worked great yesterday. Will keep trying.
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/1/101078.html |
jim_parrott
Member
Username: jim_parrott
Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 08:50 am: |
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Downloaded picture resizer from microsoft.
 |
bishops_cover
Member
Username: bishops_cover
Post Number: 14
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 08:22 pm: |
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Thanks for posing the pics. Mine is missing the carb and that round thing on the crank case next to the prop shaft. What is that? I'm confident I can find a carb, but finding that thing may pose a problem. I also have to figure the wiring out but I'm getting Waaayyy ahead on myself.
The fly wheel on mine is different. It doesn't have those wavey "cogs" inside. |
jim_parrott
Member
Username: jim_parrott
Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 08:50 am: |
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Wayne,
Those round things are grease cups for the crankshaft. One in the front and one in the back. They are readilly available new or used in a variety of different sizes, brass or steel. New coils are available and the wiring is simple. Your Palmer handbook should explain almost everthing you need to know.
Jim |
