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Message |
    
dave_jackson
New member
Username: dave_jackson
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 01:01 pm: | 
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I just aquired my first old inboard engine and its going to be a real challange. It is a 5HP Straubel 2 cycle 1 clylinder engine The engine was brought up from the bottom of a lake the hull of the boat that it had run was all but rotted away but the engine is fairly complete except for the ignition system. the engine is froze up but after taking the head and inspection covers off the engine it didn't appear to had water in it the clyinder is not rusty but the piston is stuck at the bottom any ideas of how to get one loose with the piston stuck at the bottom with no access from the bottom of the block to press it back up? Also If anyone could get me any kind of infomation on how the points system work on these engines It would be of great help The part that advances and retards the timing is on mine but the points or whatever bolts onto that part is missing. any help would be appreated. I know absoluty nothing about this type of engine and could really use a hand.
Thanks Dave |
miro
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 325
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2008 - 09:13 pm: |
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Daave - looks like you've got a good candidate for a restoration.
Can you get some pictures posted.
That willl help our guys very much to figure out what you can or should do to retore the engine.
There's a ton of experience here via this web site - it might take a couple of go-rounds but it will be worth it.
The most important ingredient is patience and a willingness to ask, ask ,ask questions.
miro |
dave_jackson
New member
Username: dave_jackson
Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 09:17 pm: |
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Hi Miro
Thanks for replying to my post I have been checking the sight everyday and was getting discouraged that no one had replyed yet. I have to say that I'm making some progress I was able to get the prop shaft coupling off the crankshaft and the water pump and water pump ecentric off and even the side cover that has the poured main bearing that the crankshaft rides in. It looks like I will have to have the crankshaft welded up and turned back down to size and have a new bearing poured because of wear on the crankshaft and in the bearing it is pretty scored up. I still have the task of getting the piston and rod loose and out, and getting the flywheel off. I did take some pictures of the engine with a digital camera before I started dissasembly. I need to get a cable for my camera so I can download the pictures onto the computer and onto this sight.
Thanks again
Dave |
jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 365
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 09:50 pm: |
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Dave, if you're going to have the crank built up, you can probably leave it a little over size and ream or bore the bearings. If the crank is larger in the bearing area and stepped down to the flywheel and coupling, you can have it ground and pour oversized bearings, no need to build up. Can you rock the crank back and forth any? At bottom dead center you should get some movement, and a lot of mechanical advantage against the piston, have the crankcase back together if you try this. Heat around the cylinder will help a lot if you get the crank to move. If all else fails you could put it in a charcoal fire, this can get above 900 degrees, enough to turn the rust to powder, but you will lose the bearings. |
searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 236
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 12:16 am: |
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JB,
How do you set up the charcoal fire? Is the engine buried in charcoal inside a container as a way of attaining reducing conditions? Or is the engine simply 'cooked' in an open bed of charcoal? I would like to try that method on an old two cylinder of unknown parentage I have. |
jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 366
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 07:19 pm: |
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I did a cylinder head for an 8hp IHC Titan engine, it was rusty, bolts, valves and a dampner on the intake valve were all stuck. I placed it in an old pickup truck wheel, spacers allowed air in from the bottom. I poured a bag of charcoal over it and lit it. My infrared thermometer goes to 888F, it was pegged before the coals were fully lit. After cooling things moved fairly easily, all bolts came out, a little tapping got the valves moving. The rust just powdered away. |
dave_jackson
New member
Username: dave_jackson
Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 10:56 pm: |
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Hi Jb
After getting the side plate of the crankcase off which the main bearing is poured in and looking at the rod it actually looks like the piston is about a half inch from bottom so there still may be a chance I can press it down at least to get it broke loose. I have been soaking it every day with penetrating fluid and even thought I got it to move some but after futher inspection it had not. I have on two occasions used a jet type space heater pointed at close range right at the clylinder to heat it up maybe for no other reason than draw some of the penetrating oil in between the piston and the clylinder wall. That is a good Idea about having the crank turned down and a larger bearing poured I would like to find a machine shop that could do both turn the crank and pour the bearings. the bearing are poured inside the crank tube of the plate It don't look like a easy task but I have never worked on this type of engine before maybe all the bearings are poured in this manner in older style engines.
Thanks for replying
Dave |
searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 237
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 11:27 pm: |
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JB,
Thanks for the response. I'll have to give it a try. |
jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 367
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 06:29 pm: |
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Dave,
If the piston has room to move down, place it in a press with a piece of pipe that touches the outside of the piston, don't put pressure on the center, it will crack. Apply some pressure, if it doesn't move heat the outside of the cylinder while pressing. This type main bearing is usually easy to pour, soot the crank with an acetylene torch, place one side in an existing bearing in the case, center the crank in the other side without a bearing, crank looking straight up. Dam the underside with babbittite or something similar, preheat to 300 degrees or so, pour in the babbit. Wear a face shield, goggles, and gloves. The secret to success is proper preheating, be sure your babbit is up to pouring temperature, and pouring it in fast. If you pour it slow it will freeze before it fills the space, leaving you with a cold lap and or voids. A guide or fabricated funnel will help here. The bearing will have to be pressed off the crank, a little polishing and scraping shoud get a good fit. Turn it over and do the other side. To machine a crank like this the main bearing area has to be larger than the flywheel section. If it's the same size all the way through, the crank will have to be built up and reground. |
dave_jackson
Member
Username: dave_jackson
Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 11:11 pm: |
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Hi Jb
Thanks for you help, I am going to try to press the piston out over the weekend I hope it doesn't give me to much trouble. I might try to rebabbit it myself If I mess up the first time at least I shouldn't ruin anything I will just have to melt it back out and start over. I hope I don't have to have the crank welded back up and turned down. I will know more when I get the piston and rod out and then I can take the main bearing plate loose from the block on the flywheel end of the engine and remove the crankshaft flywheel all in one piece. and then will come the chore of pressing the crankshaft out of the flywheel. I don't see a bolt or nut that holds the flywheel on so I assume it must be a tapered shaft and is pressed on ??? It doe's have a flywheel key that has a little hook on the end I have no idea what the purpose of this is or how in the world to remove it,It looks pretty rusty.I am hoping that the rest of it comes apart without anything going wrong and breaking I would love to get her to run again. wouldn't it be neat if these old engines could talk just think of the storys they could tell. my wife thinks I'm a nut case because I start my old outboard engines in a big drum full of water and just listen to them run. I have several old outboard engines but always wanted a old inboard engine so now I have one.
Thanks Dave |
jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 368
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 12:12 am: |
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Dave, the flywheel is held on with the key. This is called a gibb key, it's tapered and driven in, the hook on the end is supposed to be for removal. Soak it and try to wedge something between the flywhel and the key. Pressing the flyweel on a little more will help loosen it, attempting to press it off with the key in place will result in a broken flywheel. You can drill and tap the key and pull it. |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 154
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 05:21 pm: |
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Does this one have the original Straubel cast iron carbs, or something else.
and, here are a few random straubel photos cause I am bored.
 |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1698
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 07:51 pm: |
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*
Bill Thanks for the Straubel photos.
I think this is Daves Straubel that came out of the lake ? didn't get a starboard photo to see carb !
* |
dave_jackson
Member
Username: dave_jackson
Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:47 pm: |
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Hi Guys
Thanks for the pictures and Jb thanks for the advice on the flywheel and getting the key out.I will try to get the flywheel to move in and try to get the key out that way first. I have no idea how to press it on any further with out bending the crankshaft and I dont want to do that!!! I could get something a little larger than the crankshaft and smack in on the flywheel a few times to see if it will move other than that I have no idea. And Billschaller I cant really see the carb on the 10 horse but the red one Is the right carb It looks like the one that is on the 2.5 horsepower engine in the artical of gas engine magazine. As far as the twin they look pretty close to the one on mine but not exactly but that dont mean there not the right ones for it because the one on the 2.5 is not exactly like the one on my 5 hp.And richarddurgee That is my engine and where did you find pictures of it and what can you tell me about it I have no Idea how many times the engine changed hands before it came into mine. And I have no Idea where the engine came from as far as which lake and from what state. Any information you can tell me would be great. Would any of you fellows have pictures of what the ignition system looks like. the points or whatever bolts to the advance assembly is missing on my engine.
Thanks again
Dave. PS If I don't post back for a couple of days I have to go out of town and will post when I get back
Thanks again |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 155
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 09:29 am: |
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If it was mine, I would put the whole thing in an electrolysis bath, and get rid of all the rust. After all the rust is gone, then start working on it. |
dave_jackson
Member
Username: dave_jackson
Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 10:12 am: |
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Hi Bill
I think someome might have already done that because it doesn't look near as bad now as it does in the picture posted. Boy it sure looks rough it that picture. I couldn't believe that all the bolts broke loose and backed right out without one of them breaking off but I have to say that If I had seen the motor in the exterior condition of the picture richard posted I would have thought long and hard before getting it. but after seeing it in its condition now I mean cleaned up its really not to bad. I did get it off a real nice local fellow that collects old engines and tractors. I had purchased a old briggs engine off of him and seen the old straubel sitting on a shelf he told me about it being in a boat that had sunk in a lake and brought back up. I had always wanted a old marine inboard but most were out of my reach because of there cost of money. It just so happend that he needed a engine for one of his tractors and I had the right engine he needed so We did a little horse trading and I came back home with the old straubel. I really think I can get the old girl running again.
Thanks
Dave |
veloce
Member
Username: veloce
Post Number: 20
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 11:00 am: |
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Dave,
Keep up the work on that engine. I have a 23' lifeboat with a 1909 Straubel 6hp. I have had this boat for 7 years and it runs great. I use it about 3 times/week all Summer long. Last night I took my wife and 3 kids up the Milwaukee River to a restaurant for a Father's Day dinner. The ride is about 45 minutes each way.
I'm not an expert on rebuilding the engine but am pretty good at the running aspects. Your engine looks exactly like mine. The lever behind the flywheel moves a collar with the contact point. All you need is a buzz coil for ignition. The mixer is Straubel's own design and works great.
My engine was rebuilt by two Italian race car engine builders about 40 years ago. They are more used to pre-war Millers and Alfa Romeos and I'm told they had a negative reaction to having this lump dropped off in their shop. It has some real pedigree! As long as it turns smoothly and has compression, it'll run! |
miro
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 330
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:34 pm: |
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Dave - have you managed to get the key out?
I used 2 steel tapered wedges that I put between the flywheel boss and the tooth on the gib key. Using one tapered wedge will cause the wedge to bind against the tooth.
Using 2 wedges puts uniform pressure on the tooth.
The wedges were 1.2 x 1/2 and were about 3 in long. It took a while to cut them but was well worth it.
I got the key out and the flywheel off with no damage to either.
miro |
Mark Groenink
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 09:35 am: |
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Happened upon this thread this morning and was quite surprised to see a picture of the engine I raised off the lake bottom many years ago. Dave do you still the engine, did you ever get it running? |
