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frank
New member
Username: frank
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 02:17 pm: | 
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i have a Gray 1 cyl 2 stroke in fair condition. can anyone tell me what model or where to locate model number? any other comments? i can supply other pix
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searcher
Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 03:23 pm: |
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Frank,
I can't wait until somebody responds to your question. I have a Gray identical to the one you show and I have never been able to find a serial number on mine either. There are casting numbers but nothing resembling a serial number typical of the earlier Gray number sequences.
Hugh |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 108
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 05:16 pm: |
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Serial number is on the flywheel face rim. or on a brass name tag. looks like a Mississippi sandsucker, for sure. |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 109
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 05:19 pm: |
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http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3431/1352.jpg |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 702
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 06:10 pm: |
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The Gray engine above is a Model "U". With water pump on rear of cylinder its ca 1916-1927
Model U was the only two cycle engine produced by Gray after WWI.
This is 1916 ad and shows the fancy models with the reverse gears, an option , these engines will reverse on the spark !
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billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 111
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 08:25 pm: |
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looks like I blew that one. I was thinking that with the krice carb, it was fairly early, and normally it would have a gear water pump. anyone know what years the krice was sold? |
veloce
Member
Username: veloce
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 08:35 pm: |
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I just picked up one of these yesterday. My Son knew better than the grab the flywheel end. My back is sore today.
This thread is timely for me as my engine is exactly like the pictures with the eccentric water pump in back.
I am relatively new to these engines so have a few questions. Why is it called a "Mississippi Sand Sucker?"
My piston is stuck, any suggestions?
the bevel gear on the verticle shaft is badly damaged, any place to get a spare?
We had another great Summer running our 1909 Straubel. Probably ran 50 gallons of gas through that sucker without a hiccup (at least not one that wasn't operator induced).
Hope to get this one running and in a boat.
Russ Whitford
Milwaukee, WI |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 124
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 09:26 pm: |
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Russ, I had another great summer where my two Straubels sat in the shed, waiting for me to get some parts cast. How did you date your Straubel? I think there are ideas on getting pistons out in the archives. |
veloce
Member
Username: veloce
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 11:18 am: |
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Bill,
I'm not sure exactly how it was dated as I am not the owner, I am the caretaker of this boat and motor, the best possible arrangement. The serial number is 349. Someone told me this was the 34th engine in 1909 but I am going from a conversation several years ago. There is another collector West of Milwaukee who has two of them. My Friend also has an 8 hp.
Russ |
veloce
Member
Username: veloce
Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 11:09 am: |
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Here is my "new" Gray engine. Any help with model, year or size would be great. It came with a Holley model NH carb. Is this a correct carb?
Piston is stuck and I am tempted to use electrolysis method. Is this a good method for removing deep rust that may be seizing the piston?
Parts missing are points inside ignition and upper bevel gear has broken teeth. Hope to get this one going soon.
Russ Whitford
Milwaukee, WI |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 716
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 09:48 pm: |
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Russ,
Possible to get a photo of the other side of engine and the face of the flywheel ?
Look on the front outer rim of flywheel for stamped serial number, may have numbers on hub of flywhweel too.
Does flywheel have a counter weight cast into it around hub, front or back ?
With that info you may have a rare old gray one lunger ! Looking foreward to info. Richard |
veloce
Member
Username: veloce
Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 01:25 pm: |
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Richard,
Hope you can help identify this Gray.
Here are further pictures. The serial number is 2220. There don't appear to be any counterweights on the flywheel.
Hope these pictures help. I will try to disassemble today.
Russ
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 720
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 07:32 pm: |
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Many weeks ago I came across this July 1907 Gray motor ad,It's the only ad with this style motor in it that i have ever seen, and then Russ posts the photo of his gray, Same motor ? Whats said here is not cast in stone only trying to uncover the history of these old Mgfrs and more accurately date the engines !
Gray advertised and sold their first marine engines in 1906 and its now known that the engine was designed and made by Stanley DuBrie. Gray sold these engs 1906-07.
In 1908 Gray produced and sold the headless two strokes Model "R" and "S" same engs, The R had drip oilers, S had a mechanical belt driven oiler.These were two port engs and the cylinder was bolted to upper cranckcase casting. Several yrs later 1911 ca a new headless model "U" was introduced, it was a three port motor and the cylinder and upper crankcase was a single casting, they were the longest lasting Gray two strokes halting their production about 1927!
The 1907 ad and Russ's eng is a different one piece casting, and a two port, So its not any of the 3 engines that Gray advertised from 1908 on ?
The casting sure looks a lot like the smaller Dubrie, the 4 digit serial no. # 2220 is similar to Ernies old Gray( DuBrie) # 1396, and not like Gray's numbering system ? Another similarity to the DuBrie engs is the shape and thickness of the flywheel. What does look like The Later Grays is the bulge in the exhaust casting of the cylinder, and no doubt about that
"Missippi SandSucker" water pump that was an optional pump on Gray's two strokes for many yrs.
On harry's old engine site he has photos of an old Gray marine engine that he found and restored, its the same engine casting with a different timer and w/pump(Like the later Grays)? Would like
to know the serial no on that one. Thats the only other one of these i've seen so far ???
All input appreciated !! |
veloce
Member
Username: veloce
Post Number: 13
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 10:38 am: |
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Richard,
Thanks for the research. Would it appear that my engine is a 1906 or 1907 Dubrie design that was one of the first Gray produced engines?
Some further information, my engine came with a Holley NH carb. This carb is painted a darker green than the engine so it is unlikely this is the original carb. There is also no check valve which I understand is necessary to run this two port engine. What carb or mixer would be more correct?
Russ |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 721
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 03:07 pm: |
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Russ
From what I can find 1906-07 is most likely year of mfg.
1907 ad above shows the factory mixer valve, I have tried to isolate and blow up that part but its to grainy and blurs.
Hopefully a very early Gray catalog will show up one day and answer some of these questions ! |
Paul Shirley
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 02:21 pm: |
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I have just acquired a what i believe is a grey 2 cyl 2cycle engine.I would very much like to find a flywheel for it Otherwise the engine appears to be complete . |
veloce
Member
Username: veloce
Post Number: 16
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
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Continuing saga on my 1906 Gray 3hp(?). I soaked it in molasses/water mixture all last Summer. Last Fall I cleaned the smelly mess up and sprayed a lot of penetrating oil in the cylinder. Finally resorted to the grease gun approach recently and got the piston to move. Made some grease messes that were quite humorous.
Yesterday resorted to pressing the piston out through the spark plug hole. Since I got it to move with the grease, had little fear of breaking things. It came out easily.
To my surprise, it is missing one of the rings. Looks like I am not the first to tinker with it. Piston diameter is about 4 3/4". Ring height is 15/32" and ring groove is 1/4" deep. The wrist pin is also somewhat sloppy in the piston on one side. Here is my list of questions:
1. Will the engine run without this second ring?
2. What max clearance should there be between piston and cyl?
3. What is the best way to bush or repair the wrist pin/piston fit.
4. Where should I look for a new piston ring?
I would like to get this engine running and put in a boat. We are having a lot of fun in our Straubel powered boat, ran it at least 60 hours last year. Would appreciate any help with this.
Russ
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