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Message |
    
billbrauninger
New member
Username: billbrauninger
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 08:06 am: | 
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Hi,
I'm looking for information on possible engine choices for an early hydroplane project.
Ideally the engine should be a 4 cylinder in the 20hp to 24hp range and weighing less than 300 lbs.
Something that would have been available in 1907 or 1908 would be preferred.
Thanks,
Bill |
Foxman
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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Many marine engine ads in 1907-1911 showed racing engines. 20-24 HP engines tended to be 3-4 cyl 2 stroke weighing about 300-500 lbs. Most had individual cylinders threaded onto a long crankcase and crankshaft. The crankcases and mufflers tended to be made of aluminum. I have five racing engines (not for sale) from 1908-1911 ranging from 3-6cylinders and 20-36 hp. The only engine under 300 lbs is my 1908 Elbridge experimental racer model C. This weighs 280 lbs and allegedly puts out 36 hp at 1100 rpm. This would be the type of engine you are looking for. However these engines, in any condition are extremely rare and are never cheap. Be prepared to depart with a chunk of cash if you find one. Possible ultralight racers are Elbridge Featherweight (1908-1912)36-60hp Waterman K4 20 hp(1912-1915 or so) Roberts (1908-1911) are some. Are you working on a true hydroplane (Fauber style hull) or a displacement style racer? |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 709
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 11:56 pm: |
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In 1909 this engine could be ordered from " The Roberts Motor Co. Sandusky Ohio !
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billbrauninger
New member
Username: billbrauninger
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 08:52 am: |
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Thank you both for the information! My periodicals of that period are mostly bound volumes lacking much of the advertising.
Foxman: I know it's tough, but roughly how much could that chunk of cash be?
I just spent a substantial amount on a Curtiss OX engine that I am marinizing (just got a marine manifold that uses the original Zenith carburetor!!!).
It is being set up to run in a replica of one of my great-grandfather's race boats of 1911/1912. The boat was an 20' Elco-Plane with two Curtiss OX engines, inline, driving a single shaft. I'm not totally crazy so I am building a 16' version with a single OX.
The 1907 Hydroplane is planned to be a replica of one built by the New York Hydroplane Co. in that year. It was a copy of the single-stepped[b]Ricochet Nautilus[/b]owned by the Count de Lambert which was raced in Europe.
It is not a Fauber hull in the pure sense, as Fauber's patents were for multiple steps. Chris Smith was able to build his early hydroplanes, the Baby Reliance and Baby Speed Demon series. Their single steps did not infringe on Fauber's patents. The Elco-Planes were built under license from Fauber.
At any rate while in the long process of designing the Elco-Plane hull I thought it might be fun to recreate what is certainly one of the earliest American built hydroplanes. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 710
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 09:12 am: |
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Bill look at this site !
http://www.lesliefield.com/Default.htm |
billbrauninger
New member
Username: billbrauninger
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 09:39 am: |
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Thanks Richard!!
I am familiar with the site, but hadn't done a detailed search for my NY Hydroplane project.
there is quite a bit there about Lambert and the early hydro's
I just checked some of my original source material on this boat. and it was originally fitted out with an 8hp single cylinder De Dion engine, however it was suggested that a boat of this size (11') could accommodate a much larger engine. |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 117
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 08:39 pm: |
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foxman, any way we could see any pictures of your motors? |
billbrauninger
Member
Username: billbrauninger
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 12:16 pm: |
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Here is a drawing of the hull:
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billbrauninger
Member
Username: billbrauninger
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 03:56 pm: |
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Let's try this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/76Smirk/Ricochet%20Nautilus/RicochetNauti lus.jpg
Not great, but you get the idea. |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 118
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 08:35 pm: |
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If it was mine, I would put this in it. any body got a timer cover? or know what it is?
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billbrauninger
Member
Username: billbrauninger
Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 09:35 am: |
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Is that your's Bill?
Foxman: Would love to see photos of your racing engines, especially the 1908 experimental Elbridge!!
Can anyone point me to more information on the Waterman K-4?
Here are a couple of aeronautical engines that would work. I know that this is a marine engine site, but I was wondering if anyone here has run across anything like these two:
1908 Curtiss- 4 cylinder, 25hp, RPM 1200, 192#
300 cu. in.
1911 Roberts Model P- 4 cylinder, 40hp, RPM 1400, 165#, 318 cu. in.
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 712
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 01:05 pm: |
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1910 Elbridge " Featherweight "
If I had one of these in a launch I would permanently remove the engine hatch doors !
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billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 119
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 01:52 pm: |
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yes, the triple is mine. Missing the timer cover, where the name probably was. came out of Michigan about 4 years ago. don't know anything about it. |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 120
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 01:56 pm: |
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Heck, just give BJ a call.
he has a 4 cylinder waterman in the classifieds. Now, as to what you need to complete a trade, that is the question. |
keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 184
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:07 am: |
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I think the 4 cylinder "K" Waterman is 8-10 hp. The 4 cylinder "B" Waterman is 24 hp. Andrew has a catalogue that should provide more detail, like the weight of each. |
Foxman
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 06:01 pm: |
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Sorry, I don;t have a digital camera or a scanner yet. Wait for next birthday. The elbridge featherweight shown above is the most familiar elbridge as that is the one shown in the MotorBoating magazine ads. Mine is earlier (1908 or 1909 I would guess) and is a duplicate version of the elbridge model C. The only real difference is the aluminum heads, crankcase and manifold. The manifold also has ports for exhaust stacks. It has been installed in my 1908 Capital Boat & Canoe Co. racing boat. |
billbrauninger
Member
Username: billbrauninger
Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 08:45 am: |
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Thanks for coming back Foxman. I think I may buy you a digital camera for your birthday...I'd really like to see some shots of your Capital Boat & Canoe Co. racing boat!!
Here's a picture I found of an Elbridge Featherweight. This would be the just the ticket for my project.
Bill
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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 185
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 07:54 pm: |
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Foxman
What is the serial no. of your Elbridge Experimental? |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 713
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:08 am: |
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1912
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