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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 145
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 01:26 pm: | 
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I recently picked up a 6 cylinder Emerson engine. It appears in overall excellant shape. There are two items that need attention. The first being the ignition. It has a "New York Coil" distributor that has points. The cap is broken, but I can fix that. It is also missing the rotor. My real question is: What type of coil would have worked with this distributor and does anyone have parts or info? The engine is 1911 vintage.
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 491
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 12:32 am: |
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Keith
Your distributor points plate looks just like the one on my 2 cyl Dunn. Palmers I believe used same on a few models also. To research it look for " Rhoades Unit Spark System"
1911 ad
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 492
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 01:27 am: |
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from archives
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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 146
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 07:52 am: |
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Thanks Richard
Do you have the coil box with your Dunn? Maybe Dick Day will have additional info if Palmer used the setup. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 493
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 08:06 am: |
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Need a dist cap for mine, haven't found one yet,
also don't know what coil goes to it ?
This is 1913 Emerson ad- hope its readable ??
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 494
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 08:14 am: |
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ad says induction coil on eng - I cant see it ??
i'll keep looking !
Wow an ad that tells color -Royal Blue Enamel- |
richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 278
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 08:44 am: |
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I guess the critical points, non pun intended are. Are the points normally open or normally closed? If normally open then any T buzz coil would work. If normally closed then a capacitor and modern ignition coil would work. Best I can off at the moment. |
keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 147
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 10:21 am: |
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Dick I will check as to the points being normally open or closed. I think it is normally closed. Richard, I can vouch for the paint color.
Do you have the rotor?
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 496
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 11:02 am: |
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Looked at mine its normally open, cam lobes ( 2 )
for my 2 cyl dunn are rods about the size of standard welding rod. rotor has chip out of it and metal contact on top is missing ? looking close there are some minor differences from Emerson plate ?
This may confuse matters, but I also have a 4 cyl
Rhoades Unit that is different, it is normally open as well but it has spring loaded pawls that snap the points closed for an instant very much like Atwater-kent does, this would require a different coil ? no wonder this was a short lived Co. seems nothing was standard with them ??
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 497
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 11:13 am: |
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First two images
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Second two images
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jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 209
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 09:00 pm: |
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Keith, looks to me like you can use it as breaker points or a buzz coil, the deciding factor would be the rotor. Buzz coils fire when the points close, breaker points when they open. The rotor will have to be timed to the lugs on the cap when firing. If just using it for a slow running show motor I would use the buzz coil, usually easier starting and more forgiving. The buzz coil would have trouble keeping up with a 6 cylinder at higher speeds. |
keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 148
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 02:37 pm: |
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I checked the Emerson. The points are normally open. I have been told that the operating RPM was around 1500. I'm pretty dumb when it comes to electronics, but if I added a capacitor, could I just run a automotive coil. I need to make a rotor. |
richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 281
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 06:25 pm: |
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The typical modern coil depends on a relativly high current flow and I don't know if the points would be closed long enough for the coil to operate properly. The Buzz coil is the best route in my opinion. You could try a coil like the one designed for the Atwater Kent system but I don't know if you happened to wind up with the points closed for a long time if it would burn out the AW coil. It is designed for points open and only milliseconds closure. It is designed so it cannot likely end up with the points closed hence a set of dry cell batteries would last a whole season. Thinking of it in crude terms the open points system is a voltage related system and the closed points system is a current related system. I would go with the buzz coil myself. |
thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas
Post Number: 187
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 07:50 pm: |
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Keith,
I bet the 1500 RPM number was the at rated power.
For just an idle I would think 300 RPM would be more like it. It's also just my 2 cents worth but I believe that distributor was made on the "Delco" design; it would use a single coil
and capacitor (no buzz). Look at the big spring
keeping the point lever up against the cam (and thus the points open). This is just like any pre
electronic ignition car engine. (my opinion )
Tom |
jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 210
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 08:31 pm: |
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Keith, I think the coil and condensor would work fine. You'll have to time the rotor to fire in the center of the lug when the ponts are opening. If it's a reversable engine, split the difference and center it. |
