| Author |
Message |
    
Brett Wynkoop
| | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:56 am: | 
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Greeting-
My trusty palmer P60 has for the first time in
the 20 years I have had my 1974 Ericson 27 failed to start. I pulled a plug and determined that I have no spark. The engine has not been started for
about 18 months. I checked the points and they do
make and break according to my ohm meeter. I have
12 volts to the coil when the ignition is on, but a plug grounded to the head failed to spark when I cranked the engine.
The mechanic at my marina has in the past declined to work on the engine, so I may be on
my own here. I have some fears about checking
for spark with a plug sparking in the open. I would hate to explode. Any one have any ideas?
-Brett |
Larry from Maryland
| | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:00 pm: |
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If the points spark when the engine is cranked then it is a bad condenser or coil.Both can be tested off the engine,but most people try a spare one and see if it runs.You could disconect the wire on the condenser and see if you get a reading on your meter. |
Eddie
| | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:10 pm: |
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Brett,
Always start with checking points for damage and movement. Next replace the condenser. If that doesn't do it, replace the cap and rotor. The coil is rarely the problem but up this point I'd go ahead and replace it.
Eddie |
Dog Daze
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 10:32 pm: |
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Brett:
It's a bad week for Palmers. Mine is doing the same thing. I have a Grampian 30 with a P60. I discovered a couple of bad wires while checking the plugs, but that wasn't the cure. I'll be following your fix with great interest! |
lslander
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 12:59 am: |
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got a p60 Palmer gasoline engine..when i crank the engine it turns but will not start...noticed gasoline leak comming out of the flame arrester on the carburator....any sugestions...help |
Brett Wynkoop
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 02:22 am: |
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Well I have decided that since the cap, rotor, condensor, points, and wires were last replaced in the mid 1980's that I would "shotgun" the igination system. I have an off the shelf coil, I have no idea what the voltage of it is. I asked the parts house for the highest voltage one they had, and the
counter man informed me he only had one, had no specs on it, and had no idea what i was talking about! Well I took it. I suspect it is only 30Kv.
I was hopefull of going higher like 45Kv.
I am still waiting for the points and condensor. He says the cap and rotor can not be had anywhere
at any price, which seems strange to me. He also
claims he can not order the D16 plugs. This is
the little neighborhood auto parts place. At
least he took my part numbers and went to his books to cross them with the suppliers he uses.
Before the local guy I went to Pep Boys and knew
I was in trouble when I asked for D16 plugs and the counter guy said he needed to know what car
they were for. I even handed him a plug, but he
claimed he could only go by what car, not exact
manufacturers part numbers. I walked out in disgust. Is there no one in America that knows
thier own job and does it with pride! |
Brett Wynkoop
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 02:25 am: |
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I almost forgot.....When I cranked the engine over
with the cap removed I saw a spark at the points
just 2 times. After the first try at cranking with the cap removed I saw no more sparks at the points.
There was good 12Vdc to the coil though. That is what leads me to believe that the coil might be bad. What think folks? |
J.B. Castagnos
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 07:25 am: |
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30 kv would be plenty from a points and condensor ignition, you'll only be using 10 to 15 kv with good plugs and wires. Any more is not going to be used, once it jumps the gap that's as high as it's going. Get a test light and check the coil terminals while cranking, + should stay lit, - should be blinking while cranking. If the + goes out check voltage supply, igniton switch or resistor if there is one. If - stays lit the points aren't grounding, either the contacts or possibly the ground in the distributor, also an open lead wire. If the - doesn't light, either an open coil, or a ground on the point side of coil, a shorted condensor or the lead wire grounded. If the light blinks and there's no fire it could be a bad coil or condensor. |
Richard Day
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 08:40 am: |
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Islander stop immeadiatly with gasoline leaks don't try further to start engine you can have an explostion that will spoil your day. Sounds like a stuck float valve or dirt on the float valve seat. Engine is probably badly flooded. Shut down the fuel line and remove the carburetor. Get a Napa rebuild kit 2-1565 about $30 and rebuild the carburetor. Or take it to a carb shop and hope they know what they are doing. |
Eddie
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 09:25 am: |
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Brett,
Try Car Quest stores.
dist cap AL-134
rotor AL150
alt spark plug Autolite 3116
I've had trouble getting some items at discount auto stores
Eddie |
Eddie
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 12:09 pm: |
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People,
A high voltage coil will do nothing to overcome a deficiency or boost performance. Be aware that there are coils that require ballast and those that do not.
Eddie |
Larry from Maryland
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 12:25 pm: |
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The best and cheapest place to get the electric parts is valu-bilt. or online at www.valu-bilt.com |
Ernie
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 03:39 pm: |
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Call the following and ask for Chuck Balyeat. Chuck is an old engine guy and can help you even if you are not in southern Texas.
(361) 758-1880. Balyeat's Auto Supply
Balyeat Auto
1 East San Patricio
Mathis Texas 78368 U.S.A.
(361)547-9103 phone or fax
Chucks E-mail
Chucks Web Page
However it is an anglefire page and has pop ups. Not bad ones though. Close them once and they are gone. |
chuck balyeat
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 04:14 pm: |
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1880 aint my phone number ern ,maybe its for the POS sprint phone under the seat of the buick , but 9103 is the one to call . If he has the correct part numbers he can call ANYBODY .........
thanks again |
Brett Wynkoop
| | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 11:24 pm: |
|
Greeting-
Ok I need to learn....Why will a higher voltage
coil not improve combustion. My small engine background is just the class I took in 8th grade and that was a long time ago. I have worked on my own motorcycles, old 65 chevy and my MGB in addition to the Plamer, but aside from knowing the basics of how an engine works I am a novice.
Now to other things......Local parts shop still does not have my condensor and points,
and still claims to not be able to get plugs, cap, or rotor. I guess that NY parts folks are
just idiots. I would think with a list of part numbers that he could do it!
Had I known about Chuck I would already have my parts and might have gotten the engine going
by now. So I guess I will call him tomorrow!
-Brett |
J.B. Castagnos
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 07:29 am: |
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Brett, if you throw a single match in a pail of gas, or ten matches, when it's lit, it's lit. Nine more won't make it any hotter. Your plug gap is probably .035", requiring about 10 kv to fire. Your coil puts out 20kv, once it jumps the gap at 10kv the voltage doesn't go any higher, so 30 or 40kv won't be used anyway. On modern cars you see plug gaps of .060" and .080", the coils are fired by electronic modules, some use a wasted spark system which has to fire two plugs in a series, they need and can deliver higher voltage. |
Eddie
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 05:56 pm: |
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Brett,
When you go to an auto parts store or West Marine don't refer to Palmer. There won't be a listing. When dealing with a tractor supply or Napa Auto Parts refer to International Harvester tractor WITH C-60 ENGINE, NOT THE CUB CADET.
Auto parts stores are notorious for giving you the run-around when they are not sure about something or to d--- lazy to be bothered with your special order. Happens to me a lot here in California not only with Palmers but other unasual situations.
Here are the part numbers;
dist cap AL-134
rotor AL-150
condenser AL 111
points AL4556XP
I've had good luck getting these at Car Quest stores but I've also gotten them at old established auto parts stores under Standard and Blue Streak brands
Eddie |
Brett Wynkoop
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 01:18 pm: |
|
Greeting-
I hope board posting is again working. It was
not durring the week.
Eddie I never refer to what engine things are
for when I have the part numbers. Unfortunantly these days it seems that the counter people are
programed like automatons to only get parts from the
back based on what make/model car you have. They
can not deal with the maker's part numbers.
At long last I got all my ignition parts. I
found an autozone that had a young man working the
counter who had plenty of working brain cells. He
actually looked up the parts by number, gave me what he had and ordered the rest. The last of
the parts came in yesterday. Unfortunantly for him to order the parts we had to make up a car make/model for the order to go through. I think the cap showed up as being a porsche part, so that
is what he used.
Now depending on what is planned by family
and friends for the weekend, tomorrow is my birthday, I may just get the thing running and may be able to enjoy part of the summer on the water.
I have yet to find point gap and timming info. If anyone has that and could post it I would appreciate it!
-Brett |
andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 795
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 03:11 pm: |
|
Brett,
The board was down while we were moving to a new server and upgrading the software. Glad you are back and posting sucessfully.
According to the manual:
- Timing of the ignition is done by bringing #1 piston (fwd cylinder) to top dead center on the compression stroke.
- Remove #1 spark plug and crank engine in direction of rotation until air starts to rush out of the spark plug hole. Continue to turn engine until chisel mark on flywheel lines up with the chisel mark on the flywheel cover. This is T.D.C.
- The distributor points should now be set so that they are just starting to open. Point gap is .018" to .020".
- Be sure the rotor is in line with the #1 spark plug outlet in the distributor cap.
|
eddie
New member
Username: eddie
Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 03:31 pm: |
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Brett,
Well, I'm glad you had the brains to take the part numbers and work around the ordering problem.
I suggest working from inside the distributor out. Replace one item at a time and try so that you'll know where the failure was.
Let me know how it works out.
Happy bithday fellow Crab!
Eddie |
Brett Wynkoop
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 05:56 pm: |
|
Greeting-
Eddie the big problem with getting parts was
getting some one with enough working brain cells
to look them up by partnumber.
Well I replaced all the ignition system
parts today with no joy. When I was all done
I discovered that there is a short in the distributor. It seems that the screw terminal that the coil wire connects to for eventual connection to the points is always at ground!
Why did I not test that before? Oh well. I
suppose that in the next day or two I will remove
the distributor and try to fix the problem. If I
can not then maybe I will have to build a buzzbox
to get the thing going until I can lay my hands on
another distributor.
-Brett |
eddie
Member
Username: eddie
Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 06:25 pm: |
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Brett,
Murphy's Law ! The one thing out of a thousand you didn't think of. Some of the other P-60 owners went with an electronic conversion kit and are happy with them. Apparently the distributor differs from the IH tractor version, in case you need to get another one.
Eddie |
Brett Wynkoop
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 06:20 pm: |
|
Greeting-
Well I am going to try and repair my
distributor first. I suspect that proper
application of shrink tubing will probably
take care of the problem. I did not have
any with me when I was at the boat on Sunday.
While I have had few problems over the
years with the engine it is frustrating to
be stuck for now 4 weeks without use of the
boat. My marina re-arranged the floating
docs and now it is impossible to sail in or
out. No matter where the wind is from one has
to at some point go dead into it to get in/out.
Well I should be back there in the next
couple of days with some heat shrink and I will
let folks know what happens.
Thanks for the tip on the electronic.
-Brett |
Robin
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 07:30 pm: |
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Palmer P60=Thermostat: yes or no- I just replaced a couple of valves in my P60-and installed a copper head gasket- the engine is reasembled and runs better than ever (now that I have 4 cylinders- The thermostat was missing I bought one but wonder if it is really necessary on a salt water engine that lives in California??? |
richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 326
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 07:55 pm: |
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Don't ignore the fact that salt water should not be allowed over 143 degreesF in the engine block and manifold passages. If it goes over that temp for extended periods you are going to have all the water passages full of salt. Don't know what thermostat temp you bought just make sure it isn't going to raise the cooling water to over 143F. |
Robin
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 12:13 pm: |
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Palmer P60 ID- Steve your engine is a Palmer P60 ( I just rebuilt mine). |
Matt Schley
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 05:02 pm: |
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I just got a 67 Cavalier with a 327 in it. the engine turns over great but there is no spark. I replaced the spark plugs ,spark plug wires, coil. points and condensor, rotor, distributor cap still no spark. |
EddiefromOregon
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 05:29 pm: |
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Matt,
Try another new condenser.
Eddie |
Robin O.
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 07:10 pm: |
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I have a P-60 in my Columbia 34 MkII- I would like to replace the water pump- I've had it rebuilt many times and doesn't seem to last more than a few hours before it starts leaking like crazy- Rather than a re-build is it possible to buy a new water pump? The current pump is a Sherwood. |
Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie
Post Number: 116
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 12:09 am: |
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When you rebuid it do you replace the bearing and seal? |
Bob Maher
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:09 am: |
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My Palmer P60 in a '70 Columbia 34 MKII won't turn over. I have good batteries and plenty of juice to the starter. I've pulled the starter/selinoid and will try to get it rebuilt. Meanwhile, does anyone know where to get a new/rebuilt one? |
Lawrence T Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: larry_from_maryland
Post Number: 183
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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Napa has them listed in their marine cataloge. |
Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie
Post Number: 145
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 04:17 pm: |
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One from a IH LoBoy tractor WITH A C60 ENGINE will fit. Why do you ask? A good rebuild of the starter will last longer anything you will ever be concerned with. |
