Palmer Gas 4 cylinder ID

Author Message   steve Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 10:25 am:        I am trying to identify a gasoline 4 cylinder Palmer engine in my sailboat. It uses a Prestolite distributor (1AY4010A5E)and Motorola alternator. The engine is green and has a Boatswains orange support bracket (707005). The head is numbered 351779 and the manifold is numbered 7002. Pictures can be viewed at: http://www.cool-ink.com/Boat/Engine1.jpg http://www.cool-ink.com/Boat/Engine2.jpg Thanks in advance. Steve   Eddie Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 12:18 pm:        Steve, Looks like the Palmer P-60 in my 32 ft Ericson sailboat. Mine is all orange. The green parts might be replacements from an International Cub tractor.   andrew Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 12:49 pm:        Steve, I would agree that looks like a Palmer M-60 or P-60. There should be a Palmer nameplate on the engine with a serial number.   Eddie Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 01:20 pm:        Steve, Looks like the ID plate is covered with paint. It is located on top of the exaust manifold. Eddie   Richard Day Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 06:27 pm:        Eddie do you have a serial number for your P-60? Orange may be a color of the follow on companies that made the P-60. Palmer painted their engines green. I am very much interested in serial numbers. International Marine power painted their P-60s a blue color not unlike the classic Ford engines of the 1970s. What I would like to get a line on is who was/is International Marine Power??? Anybody know???   richarddurgee Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 09:41 pm:        Dick, International Harvester the tractor company bought Palmer, sold Marine engines under "Marine power" division and also used their engines in the small Cub tractors. May be more to it than that, but thats how I remember it.   Richard Day Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 07:19 am:        Dick, Here is what Raynal Bolling the CEO from 1947-1968 of "The Palmer Engine Co. Inc." told me about the IHC deal. He was the principal trying to get IHC to buy them as a marine engine division of IHC. The day before the IHC board was to meet the IHC VP who was pushing the deal died and the deal died with him as the board had had no input on the proposed deal. It was at that point the Ray knew the company was doomed as they simply could not compete with their overhead and limited market. He said that one of the partners simply could not understand that letting the quality slide and raising prices was no solution. In that one year over half the engines they shipped had serious flaws that had to be repaired by the company. A sad ending to a company that had prided itself on quality. The company lasted only two more years. 5 of their then current V-8 engine designs plus the P-60 and PW-27 were sold to Thermo Electron.   Eddie Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 09:36 am:        Dick, I'll go back to my boat this weekend and get the serial number and check for evidence of previous paint color. There are obvious signs of repainting but so far masked areas seem to be of a similiar orange. I'll check more closely and get back to you early next week.   Ernie Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 07:08 pm:        Palmer did not build engines for International. Palmer converted International truck and tractor engines for marine use. The engine in the pics from Eddie is most definatly one of the Palmer M60 or one of the successor company IHC Cub Tractor conversions. As late as last year I had 4 of them. Some had Palmer id tags (etched brass)and some had unreadable decal type tags on the manifild. The Palmer tag would have been on the top of the flywheel housing. As to Palmer building engines for International it just coulnd't have happened. The Palmer facilities were just not big enough to manufactur the millions of these engines that exist. Yesterday I was on a train from New York City to Providence, RI. I looked real well at where Palmer used to be. The area is almost an island. I would guestimate at the most 3 or 4 acres. Palmer offered the following IHC conversions that I am aware of: 4 in line from the IHC Cub Tractor engine 6 in line from the IHC BD 264 Truck engine V8 from the IHC 345 Truck Engine V8 from the IHC Truck Engine larger than the 345 I think 390 something. Also another V8 from an earlier truck engine Also a 1 cylinder conversion from a Wisconsin air cooled with a water cooled cylinder called a PW 27.   richarddurgee Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 02:19 am:        In the years that Palmer was getting into financial difficulty, I was working on engines for a living. I recall that the Palmer Parts distributor and several sailboat mfgs that were installing new engs were quite hyped on the (fact) that IH was going to take Palmer into its Corp fold. Seeing the IH logo in advertising and at boat shows etc, and the 60 series parts that I bought with the IH part Nos on them.I always assumed that was the way it went! Dick what you said about the deal not going through at last moments and Ernie what you say about IH engs being marinized by Palmer, as I look back now it puts things into proper perspective. Thank you both for straightening me out of nearly 35 yrs of 180 degree thinking on this one !   Richard Day Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 07:20 am:        Dick, Ray told me they worked very hard to get taken over by IHC and he was really shaken when the one man that was pushing the deal on the IHC end suddenly died then he knew it was all over. By the way do I understand you had a fall and are not going to be able to attend CMM this year? Life is too short to miss out on an event like that. I am worried not having heard lately from Bill Nanfield who is anothe Palmer nut like me. Guess I better send him a note and see how he is recovering his health. Regards and get well fast.   Eddie Posted on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 09:39 am:        Dick Day, Here's my findings. ser no. 80133-74 . Raised numbers in exaust manifold 7002. At bottom of ID plate Thermo Electron Engine Corporation, Palmer Marine-Crusader Marine, Sterling Heights, Michigan My engine is identical to Steve's except for green paint and lift ring on cylynder head. Steve's is like an eye bolt mine is a small bracket of sheet steel with large hole in upright leg.My starter housing is brownish-red. Mine is obviously repainted but could find no evidence of another color other than orange or reddish color on starter. Eddie   Richard Day Posted on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 10:22 pm:        Eddie, I assume the engine was made in 1974 as Thermo Electron used the same serial number scheme as Palmer. Thermo Electron bought 5 V-8 palmer designs plus the P-60 and PW-27 about 1971. If you agree I would like to add your engine to may annual listing of known Palmer and sucessor companies engines. I think the 7002 is simply the pattern number for the foundry. Either the lift ring or sheet metal lift bracket are found on a number of M-60 and P-60 engines.   eddie Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 09:29 am:        Dick, Yes. Go ahead and add my engine to the list of known engines. Glad to help .   Richard Day Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 08:11 pm:        Eddie I need a name and address. Why not send it to my E-mail address.   Robert D. Peck Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 02:25 pm:        Eddie or Richard: I recently acquired a 4 cylinder Palmer which is either an M-60 or a P-60 but I don't know what the differnce is. It is brightly painted red but the old green is visible in places. I can find no serial number plates but there is a stamped number on the block below the valve conver #55741 R6. It has a cast lift ring on the head. All the other stuff appears to be original and it runs like a scared rabbit. What model etc is it and when was it built? Can you tell me? Should it be on a list of such engines?   Eddie Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 05:15 pm:        Robert, I assume you have seen the pictues steve has earlier in the conversation. My P-60 is different from Steve's in that it has a heavy sheet metal lift bracket in place of cast lift ring. Richard informs me that they may have either one. Mine is entirly orange as oppossed to steve's partial green. The ID plate should be of thin sheet metal on the exaust system. Most of the engine is interchangeable with International Cub tractor so that can also be a factor to deal with. The raised numbers in the castings are mold numbers. I don't know what the stamped numbers you talk about are. Could you give me a more precise location on the engine?   Richard Day Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:50 pm:        For pratical purposes the M-60 and P-60 are the same engine. Basically they are the IHC CUB tractor block with Palmer water cooled exhaust manifold, and marine trim. The crankshaft is standard cub tractor but ground on the reverse gear end by IHC to mate with the Paragon OXKB reverse gear. If you rebuild use a Cub tractor block but save the marine crankshaft as it will bolt right up with IHC bearing inserts etc. Don't get confused with the Cub Cadet engine that is not what we are talking about. This is the standard CUB tractor engine and all the engine parts are available from IHC/Navistar dealers. Don't talk Palmer they will think you are nuts. Talk IHC Cub tractor. Forget the governor as it isn't needed in the marinized engine. Save all the marine trim. If you don't have a good exhaust manifold you are in deep trouble and they are very difficult to find. The head gasket must be copper if you run with salt water cooling. The standard tractor head gasket workes fine if you have a heat exchanger and fresh water cooling. You have been warned!!!!   Robert Kasper Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 05:04 pm:        wow, what a wealth of knowledge above. I've got a Palmer M60 marine engine in my morgan sailboat. I believe i've got a spilt block (lots of water in the crankcase) Any ideas where I can pick up a used or rebuilt engine that I could drop into th boat. bob   Richard Day Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 06:04 pm:        Go to a Navistar dealer and get a IHC cub tractor block rebuilt using your crankshaft and you can bolt all the marine trim on without difficulty. The exhaust manifold must be good otherwise you are in deep trouble as they are almost impossible to find. Give me a call on 301-475-3798 and we can talk about your situation. A rebult Cub tractor block costs about 1200 so you are in that ball park. They can grind your crankshaft undersize to fit standard oversize IHC bearing inserts. Talk IHC not Palmer as they will think you are nuts.   Eddie Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 11:40 pm:        Robert Kasper, Could you let me know what happens to your engine. I have a Palmer P-60 in my sailboat and would like to compare notes on upkeep and posible reengining. Thanx. Eddie   northerners Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 09:41 pm:        We also own a P-60, on the wooden sailboat we bought five years ago. Sounds like the engine was built around the time Thermo Electron took over. The cover of the manual has both the Palmer and Thermo Electron names. All the diagrams inside say simply "The Palmer Engine Company, Cos Cob, Conn." The latest date noted on the diagrams appears to be Nov. 19/70. Richard, we will try to find a serial number and send that plus our contact info to you for your listing.   Richard Day Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 07:51 am:        Sounds good. Looking forward to receiving the listing data. Seems there are quite a few P-60s still running.   Eddie Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 12:18 pm:        I tried to match my engine paint, which is similiar to the orange paint in the photographs. None of the standard automobile engine paints were close. An automotive paint shop obtained a spray can of enamal named Omaha Orange which was a close match. The paint man saw the picture and said the blue appeared to be a Chrysler engine color probably used at the convienience of the rebuilder. International tractors would be red. Curiously the orange paint on mine was oversrayed on to the hoses like in the photos. Eddie   Bruce Cranner Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 06:01 pm:        I have a Palmer P-60 on my Pearson 33 and have a block full of water. I suspect it's the exhaust manifold not the block. Any ideas about where to get a new exhaust manifold? Bruce Cranner   andrew Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 06:24 pm:        Bruce, As far as I know there is no source for a P-60 manifold. The only option is to have one fabricated. There are a number of companies that will do it... but it is expensive. If anyone else knows of a source for manifold castings... please post it here. Regards, Andrew   Richard Day Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 08:16 pm:        Bruce give me a call on 301-475-3798. I may be able to help with a useable exhaust manifold.   Eddie Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 11:17 am:        Bruce, Could it be any thing else like a cracked cylinder head? Eddie   Richard Day Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 04:07 pm:        Is your engine salt water cooled? I would be reluctant to pull the head as you will need a copper head gasket for salt water. The Cub tractor head gasket works fine for a fresh water cooled engine. I suppose its academic at this point. It could be a rust through in the valve chambers or the head. Most likely however is the exhaust manifold has rusted through. I know of one useable exhaust manifold that will go to the first $500 that wants it. They are very rare and all used ones have limited life left particularly if they are used with salt water cooling. If the problem is the block then thats easy to correct just have a tractor block rebuilt with the marine crankshaft from your engine. save all the marine trim and you will be back in business. Used good tractor heads are about $150 from one of the tractor rebuilders. I suspect that if the head is cracked the vent line from the top of the cylinder to the water line got plugged up and the inside of the head got red hot and then cool water hit it and cracked it. Make sure the vent line is kept flushed out. Too many folks ignore that little detail with sorry consequences.   Robert Kasper Posted on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 12:11 pm:        Follow-up to my note posted on June 25 03. As advised by marine mechanic: I drained the oil and refilled. I then ran for a couple of hours. The case did not fill with water, but did have a lot of "milkshake" type of stuff on the dip stick and a lot of moisure. I changed the oil again during the course of the summer with similar results. The mech says I just need to run the engine more to dry it out and the moisture I see is "normal" for this old engine. He suspects that the large amount of water first observed was probably the result of overcranking. I've also noted that the engine is running rich but instead of the expected black/blue exhaust it is white. Any ideas? Does the mech know what he's talking about?   Richard Day Posted on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 04:11 pm:        I suspect your exhaust manifold has a water leak into the exhaust side and in turn that is getting past the valves into the oil. Not good. I have one useable P-60 manifold that may solve your problem. Pull the spark plugs and look for moisture on the plugs that may give a clue to water in the upper chambers.   Richard Day Posted on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 04:19 pm:        I forgot to add the orange color on the P-60 is the primer Palmer started using in the early 1960s. They stuck to green as the finish coat. Crusader AKA Thermo electron went to a Ford blue finish coat.   Robert Kasper Posted on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 07:56 pm:        Rich, Thanks for the response. When I pulled the plugs in the fall I did not see any moisture on the plugs nor in the compression chamber. Are you suspecting the exhaust manifold itself or the exhaust manifild gasket? Any other ideas?   Richard Day Posted on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 08:06 pm:        Even if the exhaust manifold gasket were bad I don't see how it could let water into the valve chambers. The exhaust manifold uses two Cub Tractor gaskets for the openings between the manifold and the engine block. The way the exhaust manifold is bolted to the block it seems to me unlikely that it leaking would have any relationship to bad gaskets. You would see water running down the side of the block if the gaskets were bad and the exhaust manifold was leaking into the intake or exhaust valve chambers. If the upper chambers are dry I guess you must have a leak in the block causing the water build up in the crankcase oil. If you have a good manifold then have a tractor block rebuilt using your marine crankshaft and save all the marine trim. Fresh water cool the block as the tractor head gasket won't stand up to salt water.   Eddie Posted on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 10:09 am:        Robert, Check with Duby Marine in Tonawanda, NY [Buffalo]. They are very familiar with Palmer P-60's. Eddie   oscarecheverri Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 06:05 pm:        Hello, I have a Palmer P-60 that came with a Pearson 300 built in 1970. I bought it last year and I am now getting ready to put it back in the water. The engine is almost ready. Reading previous messages was very exciting, especially to a novice mechanic like myself. Right now my question is: What type of oil should be used in the Paragon gear case? The manual says #30 or #20 (depending on season) but does not specify non-detergent or detergent oil. What type should I use?   oscarecheverri Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 06:15 pm:        Question #2: Adjustment of the forward gear. The OXKB diagram in the manual is a little difficult to read (no legend - similar to the carburetor). How do I inspect for proper adjustment? Any additional suggestions on how to properly adjust the Forward drive?   Eddie Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 01:48 pm:        Detergent oils have an API rating that indicates the level of performance of the additive package. Currently the top level is SL, which is indicated on the container. Manufactures generally recommend using the highest level oil availiable at the time the engine was made. Later as the level increaces you can use any level at or above the level recommended by the manufacturer. The complete absence of additives is rated at SA. I don't see any problem with using SL rated 30 weight oil. The additive package put into the oil includes many benifical items including friction reducers, corrosion inhibitors and detergents. Viscosity is a little different. If you are using a single weight oil it is not recommended that you go to a multi-grade oil. Note additive packages put into oil by the manufacturer are a precisely engineered formula may actually be hindered by gimmick additives added later. Eddie   Mark Livingston Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 06:46 pm:        I have a Palmer M-60 rebuilt in Dec. 1999. I don't know the # off the top of my head, but will get back to you. I have some similar problems with grey milky oil, and had to go to a steel head gasket. Hope to be able to exchange parts and information with you guys.   Bill Champion Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 10:16 am:        Any of you P-60 afficianados have any thoughts about converting to electronic ignition? I have a kit from my old P-60 -cracked exhaust manifold It is the type that fits inside the distributor with a magnetic pickup. Also, Richard keeps warning about the vent line. I'm sure it's on the thread someplace, but could you please explain where this line is. Thanks.   Eddie Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 11:34 am:        Bill, Steiner Tractor offers an electronic conversion kit for cub tractors. Catalog refer: International/Farmall. Part no.: EIGN05 Eddie   Mark Livingston Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 01:49 pm:        Bill, can I get your email addy, if you want to sell that elect ig unit? I might want that, also give me as many details as possible, ok? thanks.   Eddie Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 04:24 pm:        Bill, Vent tube should be connected to carburator for burning off blow by fumes. Eddie   Richard Day Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 05:37 pm:        Be alert that the IHC Cub tractor engine which is the basis of the M-60 AKA P-60 is not the IHC CUB CADET tractor engine and any IHC dealer will think you are nuts if you talk Palmer. Talk IHC Cub Tractor.   john bishop Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 10:13 am:        Hi guys, just found your site and I too have just bought a 1972 Coronado 35 with a Palmer P/M60 Engine. Has been sitting on the hard for 2.5 years with the transmission in rain water inthe bilge. Just freed the starter and replaced the oil. Everything is pretty rusted on the block, so I am just starting to get into it. Was expecting to install an Electronic ignition system and wondered if anyone has any ideas. BTW I have a spare engine I am using for parts and have manuals for the engine if anyone needs info. Thanks for the wealth of information.   Mark Livingston Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 01:49 pm:        John, welcome. I am new here too but understand there are elect. ignitions available (Eddie above says Steiner tractor has them) and I am waiting to get one of them. I wonder is you know or have in your literature any information on the height of the float in the Bendix carb. Or if anyone can tell me how to set the float. My carb was spitting gas out the venturi, probably not shutting off, so yesterday i bent the floats down but haven't reinstalled the carb. I have a feeling this isn't the way to go, just guessing. Can anyone tell me the right way, and the spec on this? Thanks   Mark Stevens Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 02:41 pm:        I am thinking of purchasing a 1977 32' Uniflite with twin gas big block crusaders. Both engines have undergone a recent complete rebuild. The odd thing is that they were not painted during the rebuild and are back in the boat completly raw although still very clean. I am concerned that rust will start taking over. Is this a common practice to leave the engines unpainted? If not, what is the recommended method to paint while the engines are installed? What type of paint and prep should be used? Thanks for any advise.   john bishop Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 09:36 pm:        Mark, Don't have any specs on the carb float adjustment in my literature. I have a copy of the International Marine Power M-60 AD-5424-s2 7-66 Data Sheet, the Operator's Manual and the Thermo Electron Engine Palmer P-60 Illustrated Parts Manual. Might have other docs on the boat, but won't be back there for two weeks.   Eddie Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 07:48 pm:        Has anyone come across a source for P-60 distributor caps that have brass, not aluminium, contacts? Eddie   Mark Livingston Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 06:16 pm:        John, sorry I took so long to get back on your generous offer to share info. I did get something in the mail from Mr. Richard Day (Thanks a million Richard, very informative!) who posts here. I am very grateful for all your help.   john bishop Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 09:28 pm:        Hi Guys, Just installed an electronic ignition unit for my p60 from http://www.geneseeproducts.com/. Costs about $90.00 and was well worth it. Also installed a new coil and plugs. The distributor was an Autolite unit and this was absolutely the easiest and best upgrade ever. I timed the unit by hand by removing #1 plug and spinning the flywheel by hand till the plug sparked. Threw the points, condenser and resistor away and after spraying the carb with starting fluid, IT STARTED. I then replaced the Zenith rusted carb with a used holley, refitted the gas line and she ran for about 10 minutes in idle as I let water through the cooling system. WOW, sounded like a tractor.... oh yeah it kind of is! Anyway now on to the water punp impellar and transmission gear adjustments. Any help in locating information is greatly appreciated.   john bishop Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 09:31 pm:        Eddie, http://www.geneseeproducts.com/ asked if I need a brass cap when I ordered the electronic ignition, but I already had one. Check with them. Check their web site or try (918) 274-8000 [email protected]   bob Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 10:06 pm:        John, Congrats on the progress so far. Which electronic ignition unit from Genesee Products did you go with on the P-60? The IHC/Farmall w/Battery Ignition, I'm guessing or other? Bob   john bishop Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 10:24 pm:        Hi Bob, I left the details at the boat, but I called the number and discussed my application with the owner / sales. They were very helpful in figuring out which unit to order. I had an Autolite distributor, 12 volt, negative ground system in my p60. ALso suggest a new coil with integral resistor. Both were about $116.00. Also replaced the plugs with D16 champion and set the gap to .035.   john bishop Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 10:29 pm:        Bob, It was the Prestolite/Autolite unit, $89.95   bob Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 08:29 pm:        John, Thanks for the info about the electronic ignition. I've been planning to upgrade for awhile. With this info I'm going for it!   Eddie Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:08 pm:        Bob, If you have an older boat ( over 20 years ) I suggest replacing the ignition switch. It can cause intermittant problems at the worst times and is easy and inexpensive to do. Eddie   Erlin Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 05:36 pm:        I am pulling a Palmer engine out of a 1965ish Triangle 32. The tag on the engine contains the following information: Model PR134 HP 40 Engine # 4291764 RPM 2400 The previous ownner thinks the block is cracked. I've been pulling off parts, and a lot of them look like they are in decent shape. I hate to throw the parts away if they may be useful to anyone, I imagine some of these pieces might be fairly hard to find. If anyone knows of anyone looking for something off this engine, let me know. Or if I should just toss the stuff because no one is still using this engine, feel free to advise me of that too. Erlin Ventured at Yah00 . c0m   Jon Libby Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 09:27 pm:        Well, what a find! I have an Ericson 27' 1974 with the palmer engine. great running well maintined. I am glad to find the elctronic ignistion. I'll need to know which one that was and it's ordered monday. I'm trying to locate an impeller for mine too. Sherwood e-20 Impeller #10077 right? I'm fresh water in upstate NY. I'm a little worried about way it sits in my boat. Looks out of line with center. Anyone else see that? Hope to find more about this great sounding engine. Jon   Eddie Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 10:36 pm:        Erlin, Your Palmer engine crosses with an International Harvester tractor with a C60 engine. The parts unique to the Palmer are the exaust manifold, crankshaft, marine waterpump and trim, Palmer flywheel, transmission, and mounting trim. The exaust manifold is the most critical as once it corodes out it is useless and is only replaceable by a salvaged one. The crankshaft might be reuseable if within rebuilding tolrences. The transmission is unque and may be of use for spare parts. E-mail myself or other Palmer P-60 owners about parting out the engine. Eddie   Richard Day Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 07:54 am:        With regard to the alighment of the engine and shaft in the hull. Seems to me a number of sailboat makers bring the prop out offset from the stern post to avoid complicating the rudder mounting. I would look to see if that is what is the set up in your hull.   john bishop Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 08:24 am:        Jon, The impellar can be found at http://www.depco.com and is about $30.00. They had 2 left when I ordered mine and is a discontinued part. I suggest the gasket also #10286 for about $1.30. I will be replacing mine next trip to the boat as I got the engine running very well with the electronic ignition unit mentioned earlier in this thread. Good luck and happy sailing.! John   john bishop Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 08:31 am:        Erlin, I would be interested in any parts from your engine as I am now dealing with the transmission / clutch on my palmer and suspect to deal with the exhaust and riser next. e-mail me with your location if you don't mind. I am in Richmond, VA. John.   john bishop Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 08:38 am:        Stuffing Box. Any suggestions on tearing out the stuffing from the stuffing box and replacing on my Coronado 35 with a Palmer 60 engine. It has been on the hard for 2.5 years, but did not leak from the inside out as the bilge was full of water over the Winter. actually was mostly a block of ice till I started working on her last month. When the engine started, the prop turned quite well, actually squeeked a little. Didn't run it long as I know that water is typically the lubricant. Any ideas, resources, links, etc are quite welcome   Eddie Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 07:24 pm:        John, Replacing the stuffing while it's out of the water is a good move. Can't do it when it's in the water. You might check the play in the rudder post while it's out also. You can bet those things have been put off too long already. Eddie   Richard Day Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 05:11 pm:        I have had excellent results using the round 7/32 dia. Teflon plumbers valve stem packing. I cut it into C washer shape and alternate the end cut. Don't just wrap a length around the shaft as it wiil tend to wrap itself tighter and in the end destroy the seal. The teflon seams to lubbricate the shaft and the gland only needs to be finger tight to get a total seal. Don't forget to set the gland lock nut other wise you may have problems with the gland rotating. I inject seawater into the shaft stuffing box just aft of the seal to lubricate the shaft. This insures that there is always water at the stuffing box when under way as the flow of water under the hull seems to otherwise drain the shaft alley of water. Grainger sells the Teflon as follows. 4X773 3/32" 20' roll Approx $8.00 5X585 5/32" 120" " " $10.00 5X720 7/32" 84" " " $12.00 The small size is the great packing for needle valves on Schebler and similar carburetor needle valves.   Mark Livingston Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 04:48 pm:        John Bishop, please sir, what sort of Holley did you replace the Zenith with?   rob longworth Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 03:29 pm:        Re: submerged transmission. I still have the manual from my 74 P60 and it states that a submerged trans must be soaked in kerosene then drained and replaced with the normal oil before use. Mine was submerged in tap water,(dont ask) and I soaked it in Marvel Mystery Oil for a day then replaced the oil (30 wt i believe) I have been using it for 3 years since. PS It also says the #1 cause of destroying the clutch is not adjusting the forward or reverse gear correctly   Bob Kasper Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 09:43 pm:        Richard, Was just replacing my spark plugs and wires on my Palmer M-60 and got my wires crossed. My Palmer operators manual gives two different firing sequences.1-3-4-2, which I believe is correct and 1-3-2-4. Could you please confirm which is truly correct. Thanks, Bob   Richard Day Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 07:58 pm:        All I have is 1-3-4-2. Should be immeadiately apparent when you run the engine which is correct. This is a new on for me.   J.B. Castagnos Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 08:09 pm:        On an inline 4 cylinder pistons 1&4 and 2&3 are usually paired. This would only allow a firing order of 1342 or 1243 as in a Model T. 1243 was not good because it starved # 2 of fuel when firing that close after number 1.   Eddie Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 12:07 pm:        P-60 firing order per both Palmer manual and IH tractor manual is 1-3-4-2 Eddie   Bob Kasper Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 10:08 pm:        Rich, J.B and Eddie 1-3-4-2 definately is the correct firing order. Actually, I never even tried the other, it just didn't sound right. Obviously, the Palmer Manual has a typo. J.B, the pairing of cylindars sure does make sense. Never thought of the fuel starving problem that would otherwise occurr. By the way the new ignition wires and Autolite plugs sure makes a world of difference.   Eddie Posted on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 06:50 pm:        Bob, I've been running Autolite 3116 sparkplugs with excellent performance. The base is not corrosion resistant so you may notice some rust, mainly a cosmetic problem. Anti-sieze on the threads will help to protect them, a wise practice when installing spark plugs on any engine but especially marine engines. Eddie   bob Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 09:27 pm:        Eddie, Ah yes, good advice about the anti-sieze. I'm already seeing the corrosion. Thanks again Bob   Paul MacKay Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 09:34 pm:        Hi Gang, I'm new here, but have read thru your messages. I've recently bought an Allied Chance 30, which has a palmer p60. Unfortunately the previous owner left water in it a couple of winters ago, and cracked the water jacket on the head. He epoxied it and it held for a couple of years, but obviously pulled the same mistake this past winter (didn't learn), and when I put it in the water a few weeks ago I found a major problem. Does anyone know whwer I could find a replacement cylinder head? I'm in the Toronto area, but am willing to look farther afield. Thanks in advance, Paul   Richard Day Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 10:28 pm:        Go to any used tractor dealer or IHC (now call Navistar) dealer and get a used or new head for the IHC Cub lo-boy C-60 engine. It is the same as the P-60 and if you are running in fresh water you can use the tractor head gasket. If salt water you have to get a copper head gasket. Don't talk Palmer to the dealer he will think you are nuts. All the engine parts for your P-60 are identical to the Cub tractor parts as IHC made them for Palmer who marinized the IHC engine. The crankshaft on the P-60 is different on the end which connects to the reverse gear but that has no effect if you want to get a used tractor block rebuilt. Just use your marine crankshaft and save all the bolt on Palmer marine trim. The IHC CUB CADET DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME ENGINE AS THE IHC CUB LO-BOY   davidlynn Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 12:25 pm:        My 312 Interceptor V8 has carburetors which were rebuilt more than six years ago. The motor has not run 15 minutes in that time. I'm now having trouble getting fuel to the cylinders. I do have gas through the fuel pump to the filter in the glass bulb. My question is - can I disassemble any part of the carburetors to clean them or am I in for another complete rebuild? Thank you Dave in Denver   Richard Day Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 05:16 pm:        I suggest you get a rebuild kit and go through it with care. Don't disassemble on any place where parts will go adrift. Depending on the carburetor you may find that fuel has solidified and blocked a lot of small passages. Take it slow and carefully apart. note the order things came apart and then clean it with carburetor cleaner and don't breath it. Use compressed air to clean all the passages. A partial rebuild is a waste of time in my opinion. If it was rebuilt 6 years ago then the problem sounds like gunk in the passages and you will need good new gaskets to really take it apart. Perhaps the last rebuild was they simply dunked it in cleaner and blew out the passages and left the junk in to come back to haunt you. A dedicated amatuer is a hell of a lot better than an indifferent professional. You know what free advice is worth!!   Mark Livingston Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 11:22 am:        What starter options do I have for my P-60? Do I look for used "cub lo-boy" starters, or will a common car starter work (sure looks like the starter from my 51 Plymouth)? Thanks men.   Eddie Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 12:09 pm:        Mark, Marine starters are different from automotive starters in that they are shielded from arcing for safety reasons. By law and for your own safety you must use a marine starter. Can you have your existing starter rebuilt? Eddie   Mark Livingston Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 01:57 pm:        Well my starter caused an arc from the motor to the frame that it is mounted on. Bad ground, yes, no? Anyway, I am looking to rebuild it myself and wonder what the interchangability is for items like solenoid, etc. Thanks for your rapid reply, though!   Richard Day Visitor Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 07:21 am:        Mark was the short between the cable connector that attaches to the starter from the solenoid ? I notice that some of the starters on the P-60 have a very thin insulating plastic washer that over time seems to recede into the starter body from the pressure of the nut that holds the connector in place. In turn a slight movement of the cable can cause a short to the frame and when you hit the starter switch it can fry the solenoid. The solenoid is a typical 12 volt auto sealed starter solenoid you can get in any auto parts store. Eddie's points about starters being sheilded are well taken. The original starter for the P-60s was the IHC Cub lo-boy starter. Probably find a good used one from a tractor dealer.   Andrew (Andrew) Board Administrator Username: Andrew Post Number: 767 Registered: 11-2001 Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 08:56 am:        Dick, Glad to see you have succesfully posted to the new version of the board. If you post with your registered "username" and "password" you will see a logo on left below your name. Your username is Richardday (it must be entered like that, one word with that capitalization). You don't have to enter your email address. I will email you your password. Anyone can include a logo or small picture like this. Do it yourself from the "profile" section or email it to me and I will add it to your profile.   Richardday (Richardday) Senior Member Username: Richardday Post Number: 251 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 08:58 am:        This is a test message posted by Andrew using Dick Days registered information so he can see the logo on the left that will show up with his posts. That logo can be changed or removed in the Profile section. Andrew   Paul Sullivan Visitor Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 11:40 pm:        Palmer International MD 301.. looking for parts, especially cylinder head in good condition. I was trying to save some money instead of getting this one redone. These engines are old and most people have already gotten rid of. Please email me at [email protected]. Thank you in advance, Paul.   james s ward lll Visitor Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 06:50 pm:        I have two palmer international MD-301S 1963-1964? They are diesels 6's I looking for glow plugs I have a INH part no.343894r1--Palmer part no p13428 and an AC no. AC-27G these engines are in a 33ft Pacemaker,these engines were rebuilt 800 hrs.when i got it .   larry_from_maryland Senior Member Username: larry_from_maryland Post Number: 183 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 08:42 pm:        There are alot of farm tractors still in use with 236ci,282ci,301ci engines and use the same glow plugs.The last time i bought glow plugs the dealer had them sitting on the shelf,that was 20 years ago.I don't see them listed in my farm catoluges,but valu-built should have them.1-888-828-3276   capt_jim New member Username: capt_jim Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 07:55 pm:        Larry thanks but valu-built did not have them and had no cross over any othe ideas HELP ANYONE   richardday Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 328 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 07:56 am:        Have you tried Donald McKinsey, PO Box 94G, Wilkinson, IN. 46186. He is listed in the Gas Engine magazine as having 70,000 spark plugs and I would assume he may have a few glo plugs in a stock like that. Just a guess and no phone number listed. Good luck   larry_from_maryland Senior Member Username: larry_from_maryland Post Number: 184 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 07:48 pm:        I see lots of restord tractors all the time with new ones in them so someone must sell them.Have you tried an old IH farm dealer like hoobers in PA.1-800 732-0017 ?   Andrew Fairchok Visitor Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 08:58 pm:        I run an Ericson 27 with a P60 on board, Yes richard it will be a new engine for your database! I have had some issues with it but it is still strong. I am replacing an Impeller today 10077K and want to replace the Thermostat. Is it the same as on the Cub tractor or is it a special one. The engine manual says it should run about 180 degrees for optimal performance but it usually runs about 140 in the Puget Sound. Any ideas?   eddie Advanced Member Username: eddie Post Number: 35 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 09:45 pm:        Andrew, Stop the presses!!! Raw water marine engines run no higher than 140 to prevent salt buildup. Also the Palmer thermostat is smaller and in it's own housing connected to a pipe fitting coming out of the exaust manifold. The housing where the thermostat would be in the tractor is made in such a way as to prevent you from putting one there. That housing serves only to connect the out going engine water to the exaust system. Note, that hose is a 7/8" hose which you can get from an appliance shop ( washing machine drain hose ). Eddie   ernie Senior Member Username: ernie Post Number: 455 Registered: 01-2002 Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 07:42 am:        I would suggest using automotive heater hose. It is designed for heat and pressure. Washing machine hose is most likely NOT. At least the stuff on my washing machine sure isn't   eddie Advanced Member Username: eddie Post Number: 36 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 11:28 am:        Where do you get a 7/8" automotive hose.   ernie Senior Member Username: ernie Post Number: 456 Registered: 01-2002 Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 01:01 pm:        This isn't a smart remark.... The auto parts store, been a while though and in another state but I think it was NAPA.   larry_from_maryland Senior Member Username: larry_from_maryland Post Number: 188 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 01:18 pm:        The tractor engine did NOT use a water pump or a thermostat.So don't go looking for one.   eddie Advanced Member Username: eddie Post Number: 37 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 02:22 pm:        The appliance hose I got was cord reenforced neoprene similiar looking to automotive hose. That advise was given to me by an old pro at an independant auto parts store. By that time I had gone to several marine stores and auto stores big and small. All had 3/4" and then jumped to 1". Eddie   chris j mews Visitor Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 08:39 am:        Very interesting!!! I was a tractor dealer in Nth Queensland Australia and traded an old International model AV tractor .It started on petrol and ran [very sweetly] on kero .I used it to tow my boat down to the Johnstone River [full of big saltwater crocs.Unfortunately I got it bogged oon the river bank one afternoon and the tide came in over the chassis. I didnt bother trying to retrieve the old AV because I thought the crocs might have a "go " at me. Anyway I came back next day with a John Deere 4020 and pulled her right up the beach with a chain. The little AV was a neat little tractor and I'm pleased to find out that IH sold these motors to Palmer Rgds Chris   Eddie Ross Senior Member Username: eddie Post Number: 217 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 12:08 pm:        Chris, yes, the Palmer P-60 was a very sweet running machine. It had a center of crankshaft bearing which is a much appreciated plus over the similiar but more common Atomic 4 engine. Unfortuately, Palmer went out of business over 30 years ago, and there are so few running Palmer P-60s existing that there are no aftermarket spare parts being made that are not common to the tractor engine, so it can be difficult to keep them in service in the long run.   Lawrence T Wolfe Senior Member Username: larry_from_maryland Post Number: 308 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 12:34 pm:        The av used an engine one size larger than the p 60.The AV engine was allso overhead valve so don't get them confused they have nothing in common.   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 636 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 02:54 pm:        Good point Larry.   George Verbryck New member Username: verbryck Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 04:07 pm:        I am having a new problem with my palmer p60 when I throttle up around 1200+rpm the clutch will disengage. I assume this means the clutch needs adjustment I found some instructions on this sight however after I got the cover off the gear section I can not see back there very good does anyone have a picture of the adjustment? This is on an ericson 27 and the area behind the engine is very tight I may need to use a mirror to actually see it so having a picture of what I am looking for would be a real help, Thanks, George   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 649 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 05:51 pm:        Do you have the Palmer instruction Book? If you don't the reverse gear is a Paragon OXKB and the clutch adjustment is simple but if you have to use a mirror to see what you are doing I expect it will be difficult. If you don't have the instruction book I will see if I can e-mail a portion of the instruction book which is pertinent.   George Verbryck Member Username: verbryck Post Number: 4 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 10:32 pm:        Richard , I do not have the Palmer manual but I got instructions, (yours?) posted here my problem I have not seen this before and viewing is extremely limited. I am 6'5" tall and anyway would have to be a Chinese contortionist to get a very good look. What I could see was a maybe 5/16 bolt with a spring held between to forks or?? thats about it. If this is the adjustment area I may be in business if however it is lower down, I am not sure how I would have or be able to make a change. Many Thanks, George   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 650 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 08:53 am:        What you are seeing I think is item 330 on the diagram for the OXKB. Don't mess with that as it is the adjustment of the reverse band which grips that whole reverse gear drum. When you hold the shift handle in reverse it tightens the band around the drum causing the prop shaft to reverse. The reverse handle does not lock in place like the Forward does. Look at the drawing and find item 76. You should be able to find it by feel simply by slowly rotating the drum until that hex nut comes around. There is only one and you should be able to feel the slotted disk which is item 28. Item 76 screws into any slot on item 28. Loosen the item 76 set screw just enough to back it slightly out of the slot in the item 28 disk. Don't back it all the way out or you might lose it in the bottom of the reverse gear case. As soon as you loosen item 76 a fraction of a turn take your fingers and see if you can easily rotate the item 28 but still hedl captive by item 76. Rotate it back and forth and you should find it moves very easily but still held captive by item 76. Then loosen item 76 until you can rotate item 76 one slot clockwise facing the flywheel. Without rotating the flywheel try the handle of the reverse gear and see if it snaps into forward with a firm hold. If in doubt move one more slot and try the hold on the forward position of the handle. Don't make it too firm. If it feels normal you need to then tighten item 76 but keep in mind the end of item 76 has a smaller diameter than the threaded portion and that smaller diameter is intended to hold the item 26 from rotating. Feel your way carefully as you don't want to have the small portion bearing down on the periphery of the item 28 you want it riding in the slot. Once you have got it in the slot you should feel a slight motion if you try to rotate item 26. Then tighten item 76. Don't worry if you go too many slots in a clockwise direction you won't get the shift handle to even begin to lock in position and if you go back too many slots it will probaly not even lock much less rotate the prop in forward. Use your mirror to check the oil level at the aft end of the revese gear is about an inch below the shaft. Keep in mind there is no oil shared between the engine crankcase and the reverse gear crankcase and too many reverse gear problems have their roots in the assumption the crankcase oil dipstick includes the oil in the reverse gear. IT DOES NOT!!!! It also doesn't disapear unless the aft seal has leaked. USE SAE 30 non detergent oil and change it once a year. Guess you have to pump it out as best you can. I am sure many people never mess with the oil in the reverse gear as it is just too much trouble. Good luck. Cannot help on the 6'5"   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 651 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 11:39 am:        Small added thought. When I say looking toward the flywheel I am assuming you understand as if you are aft of the reverse gear looking toward the flyheel Hope you understand. Don't hesitate to contact me if in doubt.   George Verbryck Member Username: verbryck Post Number: 5 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 01:17 am:        Richard, Thanks for the comprehensive thoughts was there supposed to be a diagram to match your instructions? I did not get it if you sent it or posted it here. Again Many Thanks, George   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 652 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 07:59 am:        Sorry I assumed you had the diagram. I have attached a copy for you.   George Verbryck Member Username: verbryck Post Number: 6 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 03:26 am:        Richard, Thanks makes more sense with the diagram , just to clarify a couple of times you mention item 26 , but I think you meant item 28. Is this correct or have I missed something? Best regards, George   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 653 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 08:12 am:        No you are correct sorry about the gross error. I have glaucoma and it is often hard to read some slightly blurred letters or numbers. I just hope it doesn't get any worse. Good luck   zowie Visitor Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 07:17 pm:        working on a 1952 cub farmall with a c6o engine need to know where no. 1 is on the distributor a photo would help thanks rick   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 755 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 08:25 pm:        The c 60 in a tractor appication is the same engine as the marine engine except the No. one cylinder is at the radiator end of the engine. This means the no. 1 cylinder is nearest to the radiator. Bring the crankshaft fan pulley notch so it lines up with the pointer on the left side of the engine. This puts the number one cylinder on top dead center. Simply take off the distributor cap and look at the position of the rotor on the distributor. This will tell you which plug wire tower is to no. 1 cylinder. The firing order is 1,3,4,2. Keep in mind the C-60 engine is for the CUB Lo-Boy not the Cub Cadet. hope this helps. r   Richard Barber Visitor Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 11:55 pm:        I have a Rawson 30' with a Palmmer IH 60. I'm looking for a carburetor Reuild Kit for a Zenith. The number on the round disk on top of the carburetor are (1135 on the outer rim and 821 just below it with the letters "S" on one side and it looks like a "C" on the other side. Can you help me with this problem.   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 788 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 07:46 am:        NAPA rebuild kit 2-1565. Carb is Zenith 61 series. Inner circle is a Zenith number outer circle is engine makers no. this carb was used in a lot of different applications.   Richard Barber Visitor Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 04:10 pm:        Thank you Richard for the tip on the carb. Kit from NAPA, the cost out the door was 42.95. Just to let you know the engine runs just fine now. Next, I'm picking up another Pallmler HI C 60 engine that has never been is salt water, and I'll be looking for a complet rebuild kit (rings, bearings, and gasgets) any ideas where I can go for the stuff. Thanks again for your help. Richard   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 791 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 07:31 pm:        Any Case/IHC TRACTOR dealer can get all the engine part but not the Palmer bolt on stuff. The basic block is the IHC CUB Lo-Boy C-60 engine. Don't talk Palmer they will think you are nuts. Just make sure you talk CUB LO-BOY C-60. Don't just say CUB as you will likely get an entirely different engine. You can get a gasket rebuild kit from [email protected] John Baker in Thailand makes excellent reproduction P 60 gaskets at very reasonable prices. If you run in salt water you must have a compressible copper head gasket. Only fresh water you can use the standard IHC head gasket. The two exhaust manifold gaskets are standard IHC tractor gaskets. There is a wealth of info on the Palmer P-60 under TOPICS Just go to TOPICS and down to Palmer   Eric V Visitor Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 02:08 pm:        Hello group. I just purchased a sailboat with a P-60 engine in it. The boat also came with a brand new p-60 in the crate. Does anyone know where or who would purchase it. Either for parts or a working engine. I am located in the NY, CT area.   Richard Barber Visitor Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 08:26 pm:        Hello Richard, Would you happen to know what the compression on a P-60 should be? thanks.   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 815 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 11:07 am:        The only thing I know is all four cylinders should be within about 10% of each other. I have been unable to find any specific pressure data even in the IHC manual for their P-60 engine which is the same as the Palmer P-60. I am sure others may be able to give you a practical figure.   Chip G Member Username: chipg_98 Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 02:16 am:        When I run a compression gauge on mine it shows around 110-115# in each cylinder... except when I am having stuck valve problems... and then that cylinder shows zero ;=) I think 110-115 is probably a reasonable number to look for on this type of engine but I am not an expert... just a user.   Eric V Visitor Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2011 - 06:52 pm:        If anyone is would like to purchase my Palmer engine please contact me. [email protected] I have 2 #1 Ran last month and was rebuilt ten years ago and never installed in a boat. #2 Is good for parts, or may be able to get going with a cleaned carborator and some TLC. The exhaust manifild is in great shape. I know that goes on some engines. If you know who deals with parts or vintage engines please email me. Thank you.   Lynn Lewis Visitor Posted on Friday, July 08, 2011 - 02:34 pm:        Anybody know what kind of thermostat fits a Palmer marine engine (1970's or 1980's - not sure of year of motor). It is a 302 Ford w/ 212hp. My husband bought it along with a Harker's Island skiff thinking it has a thermostat in it. Now he doesn't know what was originally in it because there was no thermostat. Any help would be greatly appreciated.   David Band Member Username: attyband Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2011 Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 07:31 am:        Where is the oil drain plug in the Palmer P60. I put a new head on and it will run! Obviously in the fiasco leading up to the corroded head, blown head gasket, etc., I got water in the oil, and tried sucking the old oil out through the filler tube, but it just dosen't work. Where's the oil drain plug? Is it hard to get to? I assume it's near the gear box at the back of the engine?   Eddie Ross Senior Member Username: eddie Post Number: 273 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 11:19 am:        Oil changes are a very nessessary ongoing maitainance. You should be able to do this easily through the dipstick tube. You should be able to have very clean oil by changing it that way. In a case of extreme contamination you might want to do a second oil change directly after running the the engine up to normal operating temperature.   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 984 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 06:55 pm:        Look on the port side of the crankcase near the bottom edge about half way from the bow and stern portions of the crankcase. You should find a pipe plug with square head. If you pull it you better be prepared to catch the contents of the crankcase as it will pour out.   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 985 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 09:11 am:        At the top of this page look at the crankcase of the engine and you will see the drain plug for the crankcase. Should have thought to call your attention to it.   David Band Member Username: attyband Post Number: 5 Registered: 07-2011 Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 09:50 am:        Duh Guys! You all let me work through the mental process of trying to change the oil by draining the crank case through the plug on the bottom of the engine. Dreading the messiness and inconvenience, suddenly I got the brilliant idea of buying a hand pump with a reservoir to suck the oil through the dipstip tubs. Got it on Amazon.com for $64 and WOW, I'm hoping it works easy. Don't know why somebody didn't suggest that. I'm sure it's because it was so elementary!! The oil is pretty milky. I realize I'll have to draw it down as far as I can cold, to be sure the oil isn't over filled, run the engine to warm it up, and suck it out again once the viscocity drops down.   Matthew Lennarz Member Username: mlennarz Post Number: 24 Registered: 06-2010 Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 10:15 am:        David, Eddie Ross did suggest that. I (and others have posted) have not had a lot of luck in sucking the oil via the dipstick tube, but maybe the oil pump you bought will work better than the one I got (which was useless). I ended up draining from the plug since I had trouble with the dipstick method, and I felt that also I got a lot of sludge by draining from the plug. However, as mentioned, it is messy. I built a custom funnel out ducktape and hung it under the plug with a string. I then put a drain basin down in the bildge to capture the oil. That worked well in capturing the oil, but it was difficult to remove the basin from under the motor, and that's when it got messy. Ended up having to clean the bildge with rags... not an easy or pretty operation! Anyway, good luck, and please let us know how it works.   Bingy Visitor Posted on Friday, November 25, 2011 - 11:18 am:        I have a friend with a P60 engine and is having I suspect cooling water problems. He has a standpipe exhaust system and there is no thermostat. i have a Atomic 4 and with out a thermostat there is too much flow thru Manifold and not enough thru block.Would installing a thermostat help with his problem. There is always steam showing along with water at exhaust exit.   Eddie Ross Senior Member Username: eddie Post Number: 276 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2011 - 07:32 am:        Is there water routed into the exaust manifold ?   Jim New member Username: jiml Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2011 Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 10:12 am:        I helped deliver a Coronado 32: motored two hours to a marina and dry docked Nov 2008, the engine a p60 was winterized by the yard and not started since. Recently I became the new owner. Curious, if I should do additional winterization or engine precautions since its not been in the water or started since late 2008.   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 995 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 04:05 pm:        Was the engine used in salt water or fresh??? If salt does it have a heat exchanger so salt water never enters the engine block or exhaust manifold. If the engine was winterized in 2008 and it was used in salt water with no heat exchanger you will likely have a junk engine. I doubt the yard filled the water jackets with anti freeze to keep the salt from cracking the water jacketed parts of the engine and exhaust manifold.   Jim New member Username: jiml Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2011 Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 09:08 pm:        It is a salt water cooled engine. I don't know the engine yet I just got a box with a basic running manual and maintenance records which includes the 2008 Winterizing of the engine. The marina receipt description for winterizing includes: Draining raw water cooling system, add stabilizer to fuel, flush raw water cooling system with Non-toxic anti-freeze, fog engine and test permanent antifreeze jim   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 996 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, November 28, 2011 - 06:21 am:        Go over all the cast iron water jacketed part with close attention to any cracks or evidence of core plugs popped out. Not knowing what "test for permanent antifreeze" means makes it difficult to know if the water jackets were filled with anti freeze. If they were it is likely the engine is ok. Air getting at the salt is the danger. Good luck.   Jim New member Username: jiml Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2011 Posted on Monday, November 28, 2011 - 08:26 am:        Richard, Thanks for the heads up I will followup when I know more. I've really enjoyed reading about the p60 thanks again Jim   craig stocks New member Username: mudsharktwo Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2010 Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2012 - 09:25 am:        ineed atemp sending unit for a palmer p-60 help!   Eddie Ross Senior Member Username: eddie Post Number: 281 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2012 - 11:14 am:        You need to get a sending unit with the same threads and a compatable (matching) temp gauge   carlos perez New member Username: melekai Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 - 10:28 am:        i need oil filter for my palmer 60, what do i use to replace it or where can i find one   carlos perez Member Username: melekai Post Number: 5 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 10:55 am:        palmer 60 4 cylinder, blown head gasket, where do i find one for this model   Eddie Ross Senior Member Username: eddie Post Number: 291 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 11:14 am:        Are youn operating your boat in salt water or are you on a fresh water lake ?   carlos perez Member Username: melekai Post Number: 6 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 11:17 am:        eddie, salt water   carlos perez Member Username: melekai Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 11:32 am:        also i need a thermostat for my palmer 60 4 cylinder , salt water   Eddie Ross Senior Member Username: eddie Post Number: 292 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 12:37 pm:        You will need to have a head gasket custom made from copper. Check out Gaskets To Go, F.H. Gaskins Co., Molina Gaskets. About the thermostat. Do you know where it is located. It is NOT where the it would be in the tractor version   carlos perez Member Username: melekai Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 01:03 pm:        the thermostat is on the head   carlos perez Member Username: melekai Post Number: 10 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 01:05 pm:        we also found a palmer 60 copper gasket on ebay   carlos perez Member Username: melekai Post Number: 11 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 01:09 pm:        for 59.99   George Verbryck Member Username: verbryck Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 02:28 pm:        Carlos I bought an extra gasket the last time I had to replace my head gasket just in case. Send me a message if you would like my extra gasket as I do not have a Palmer any longer. Regards, George   carlos perez Member Username: melekai Post Number: 12 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 03:32 pm:        yes please, How much, we our in need , my wife and i love to use our islander to go to catalina island as much as we can when we are not working thank you   George Verbryck Member Username: verbryck Post Number: 15 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 04:24 pm:        Carlos it looks like you may be local to me as i am in long Beach so you could just pick it up if you like. how does $40 sound? regards, George   carlos perez Member Username: melekai Post Number: 13 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 05:38 pm:        thank you george, that sound really great, we are at cabrillo marina, we liveaboard, just let us know where, we can make it tues or wens , thank you geroge carlos and deb   George Verbryck Member Username: verbryck Post Number: 16 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 10:01 am:        Carlos i sent a email to you at the account listed in your profile did you get it? Regards, George   carlos perez Member Username: melekai Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 11:25 am:        yes i did, i have your telephone number, i will call you monday , thank you again.   carlos perez Member Username: melekai Post Number: 15 Registered: 03-2012 Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 11:32 am:        george, can't find the post, with your telephone number, i know your located at almitios bay long beach,   Rick McComb New member Username: rick67 Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2012 Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 10:15 pm:        Hi all, I have a Palmer P60 with the Paragon OXKB on an Islander 30 MK II sailboat. I recently replaced the trans cable. All went well however when I fired up the engine forward gear snapped in as expected but when I engaged reverse there was a slight hesitation before engaging fully,,,,,,should I be concerned with this,?? Any help would be great thanks, Rick67   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 1030 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 04:57 pm:        My thoughts are the new cable is not adjusted for length. I expect if you operate the reverse manually at the reverse gear itself it probably works as it should. Just a guess.   George Verbryck Member Username: verbryck Post Number: 17 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 05:14 pm:        In addition while it has been a while since I had a Palmer in my boat I believe you have to hold the shifter while in reverse, i.e. it does not pop into gear like the forward gear. Rather you must push or pull as the case may be to entire time you wish to reverse. Also anything Dick Day says must be looked at as he is one of the most helpful guys around with the palmer engines. Regards, George   Eddie Ross Senior Member Username: eddie Post Number: 308 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 09:32 pm:        My experience is the same as George's. I have to hold it in the reverse position. It does not "click" into position the way that it will in forward. At first I looked to find if the shift linkage needed adjustment but it was free to travel and that was not the problem.   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 1031 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 08:01 am:        As a long time driver of a Model T Ford you quickly learn the planetary transmission requires you hold the reverse band tight other wise you cannot back up the hill. Same applies here. Look down at the diagram of the OXKB transmission on this listing and note the 330 nut. Your reverse band brake lining may be a little worn and it is not grabbing the rotating drum firmly enough. Try tightening the 330 nut one turn. See if that makes up for the new cable length. You don't want to tighten the 330 nut too tight as that will put additional wear on the brake lining. Don't try to run the engine with the transmission cover off as it will throw the oil all over. Remember the oil in the transmission is not connected to the oil in the engine. It should be about 1 inch below the shaft to the prop.   Andy Bruce New member Username: dutbudgeo Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2013 Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 09:44 am:        Hi guys, I just bought a Pearson p300 with a Palmer m60 engine that is stuck. Does anyone out there have a good one for sale? I will need a good exhaust manifold too as this was a saltwater boat and has been sitting for 14 years on the hard.   Andy Bruce New member Username: dutbudgeo Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2013 Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 11:56 am:        Hey all, looking for a copper head gasket for Palmer m60. Anyone got a lead?   Robert Senior Member Username: robert Post Number: 617 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 02:27 pm:        gasketstogo.com   George Verbryck Member Username: verbryck Post Number: 18 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 02:35 pm:        Andy I have an exhaust manifold and a solid copper head gasket left over from when I had a palmer and I am in the LA area, where are you?   Andy Bruce New member Username: dutbudgeo Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2013 Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 03:29 pm:        Hey George, I'm in Magnolia, Kentucky. I would like to buy the manifold too-if you don't mind boxing them up and going to the post office. What is your price?   David Grosse Member Username: davidg Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 07:04 pm:        George, If your deal with Andy doesn't happen -- I am interested also. I am in Los Angeles area. -David   George Verbryck Member Username: verbryck Post Number: 19 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 08:59 pm:        Sorry got busy over the weekend, I do not have a price make an offer. I moved recently and found the manifold but have not located the head gasket yet. the manifold weighs 30+ pounds so shipping will not be cheap. I also found another manifold but it is damaged it may be repairable not sure. So if Andy or David are interested please let me know. I also have of a complete set of P60 accessories, block pistons and head are no good. Regards, George   Andy Bruce Member Username: dutbudgeo Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2013 Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 - 06:53 am:        Hi George, I haven't seen anything on line similar to this so I haven't a clue what it's worth. Would you take $100 + shipping for the manifold and gasket?   David Grosse Member Username: davidg Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Saturday, November 02, 2013 - 01:42 pm:        Hello George, I am interested in the accessories (and manifold if you don't sell it to Andy), and am local so no shipping would be involved. Is it possible to schedule a time to come check things out? You can respond directly to my email address with your contact info and I will get in touch with you to set up a time and place. - David   Carl Hanlon New member Username: rednecknparadise Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2014 Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2014 - 05:31 pm:        Have recently purchased Palmer marine model # IH60, Serial # 4086162, 22hp, Trans model RDAS, Serial # 4j3860. Anyone have reference materials I can get to that would give me year made or other information on the engine? Thanks   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 1095 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2014 - 08:39 pm:        Go to Topics and slide down to Palmer Serial numbers 4086162 IH 60 was made in 1962. From about 1908 the last two digits of a Palmer serial number with out regard to model are the year the engine was made.   Mike Mulaney New member Username: mikey1flakeys Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2016 Posted on Monday, July 11, 2016 - 10:56 pm:        I have a 1971 Islander 36 with the palmer P60 and need to rebuild carb are parts avail?   Eddie Ross Senior Member Username: eddie Post Number: 343 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2016 - 01:17 pm:        Yes, you can also upgrade to a Zenith 68 series carburetor. You should be able to get a rebuild kit for a Zenith 61 series from a tractor parts supply or Napa Auto Parts. Refer to International Harvester C60 engine when dealing with tractor parts as they will NOT have cross reference to Palmer. The carburetor is also one of the few parts that is common to the Atomic4 engine and the people at Moyer Marine can also help you.

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