| Author |
Message |
    
Frazer Torode
New member
Username: nash
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 06:21 pm: | 
|
Hello All
A scrap metal man poked his head through my back door last Wed. and asked "Do I know of anyone interested in purchasing old engines?"I was in the front office and very quickly made my way to the back door. "What is it, how old is it?" I ask.
Oh I don't know about 1900 and change, single cylinder marine made by the GRAY MOTOR COMPANY came the reply
Friday it became mine, all mine. What an interesting beast, I have explored this Webb site and I now know the mechanical oiler has been removed and the ports plugged (with threaded plugs)other wise all is present, I think!
The serial #11372 is stamped on the cylinder above the carb mount, under a stamped "S", I could not find a number on the flywheel. At present it is stuck, sat for how long I do not know.The flywheel measures 13.25" the shaft 1.1875" the weight 120 lbs. Big Schebler, brass water pump and all grease cups are present
Have I offered enough information to determine the horse power and what size boat need I search for?
I have always wanted one of these ever since cod jigging in NFLD years ago. |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3850
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 08:22 pm: |
|
*
Your Model S Gray #11372 was mfgd 1911
some info here.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123802
* |
Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert
Post Number: 734
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 12:25 pm: |
|
Some here too: http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3431/3431.html |
Frazer Torode
New member
Username: nash
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 12:46 pm: |
|
Gentlemen
I think I have just uploaded a photo of my piston.
The skirt has been brazed all around, I doubt this to be a factory option, but possibly a repair done to keep the engine running out of necessity. Where do I go from here?
Thank you
And thank you for the input Robert and Richard |
Frazer Torode
New member
Username: nash
Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 12:59 pm: |
|
I will try again |
Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert
Post Number: 752
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 09:41 pm: |
|
I'm having trouble seeing the brazing myself. The whole thing looks like bronze. Could it be someone plated it a few times to increase the diameter slightly and so avoid having to get a new piston? |
Frazer Torode
Member
Username: nash
Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 07:12 pm: |
|
Hello Robert
What you see is completely around the piston, there are bronze bushes installed for the wrist pin.The diameter is 4". The bronze takes on several colours some just yellow others more red. I have no idea if this has run for any length of time, I would like to think it would run, the rings are sound, the edges crisp. The babbitt journal looks to be OK. |
Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert
Post Number: 759
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 01:43 pm: |
|
I suppose someone could build up braze all around the body of the piston and then lathe turn it down to a smooth surface, but it seems like an H of a lot of work to no purpose since even 30 or 40 years ago new or used cast iron pistons were not hard to find or expensive. Could it be that whoever did the work thought it would improve the running of the engine by reducing friction?
Some closeups might help. |
Frazer Torode
Member
Username: nash
Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2016 - 04:44 pm: |
|
Gentlemen
I have removed most of the rust from inside the crankcase. The bevel gear which drives the water pump gear has a missing tooth, I would like to remove the flywheel to enable repair, is there a proper method of removal? I notice a large round nut on the flywheel hub and assume this needs to be removed before attempting to remove the flywheel.
Robert, more pics to come next week, thank you |
Frazer Torode
Member
Username: nash
Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2016 - 06:42 pm: |
|
Another thing - this engine has a 4" bore and stroke
and a 13.5' dia. flywheel. Is this engine a bit of this and a bit of that?
Frazer |
Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert
Post Number: 769
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2016 - 02:33 pm: |
|
There's lots of info here on flywheel removal in other threads. Best have a careful look at that. Your bevel gear would have to come off to be repaired, unless done by brazing and hand filing.
Yes, the nut on the end of the crankshaft would have to come off to get the flywheel off. I don't know if the cranks with threaded ends always used a right hand thread or not. You'd need to examine the end of the crank carefully and hopefully see which way the thread turns.
If you're determined to get the wheel off, I would stand the engine flywheel down in a pan of kerosene, diesel fuel or some other light oil or penetrating fluid for a few weeks. Put it somewhere it can't get rained on and overflow! Covering the entire wheel including the inside face of the hub so that the oil can penetrate from both sides of the wheel. No harm in soaking it well in penetrating fluid whatever you do, as you may need to remove it someday. Were it mine I would warm it up a bit first to drive out the moisture and allow the oil to penetrate better, but only just until almost too hot to touch; no more! But if you don't absolutely have to get the flywheel off it's probably best left alone.
A nut usually means a tapered crank end and matching taper in the flywheel hub. Let it soak a few weeks first before trying to undo. You can use a moderate amount of heat on the steel nut, IF YOU HAVE TO, but keep the heat well away from the flywheel hub with some pieces of cement board cut to shape. If you can get it off without heat so much the better as heating the nut expands it in all directions and I see no reason why it wouldn't push the flywheel farther up the taper when it expands, which is not what you want.
Some of our members would say no torch work under any circumstances, due to the danger of cracking from uneven expansion of the metals. If you don't have good reason to be confident of what you're doing and how, best to follow that advice IMO.
Another damn essay! |
Frazer Torode
Member
Username: nash
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2017 - 12:57 pm: |
|
Hello
I have removed the flywheel and gear and removed the crank from the crankcase. Cleaning is under way.
But, I have discovered that while the bore is 4" the stroke is only 3". I have been looking for the specs. on these motors, can someone direct me to the appropriate source, thank you. |
miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 906
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2017 - 09:44 pm: |
|
For a gear repair like that, I have flattened a smal land where the broken too th, and then drilled and tapped 2 or 3 8 -32 holes into which I screwed Allen screws.
Then, cut off the hex head, and carefully hand file the tooth shape onto the remainder of the screws on the gear.
Locktite the screws in place.
I usually make a cardboard pattern for the tooth profile using an adjacent good tooth - smear some light grease on the edge of the gear ad press the cardboard onto it to get the profile.
It ain't perfection but is a time tested repair for a broken tooth.
There isn't very much stress on the tooth so it should work for you.
Miro |
Frazer Torode
Member
Username: nash
Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 11:57 am: |
|
Well hello Miro
I was able to purchase a 28 tooth 20 degree pressure angle gear and turn it down to the same dimension of the original, now I need to broach the key-way.
I just bought a float for the carb. Making headway.
Frazer |
miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 908
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2017 - 10:14 pm: |
|
Once you get the gear in place, and from what you said, the main bearings seem to be OK, I suspect that you'll have a runner.
But these Grays tend t hop around a bit especially at low speed so make sure you've got a good base to mount the engine on with some weight the first time you run.
With a close loop cooling system i.e. hoses in a bucket you can run the engine either direction. In a boat with the water being discharged over the side, it will only run in one direction because of the gear water pump.
Oh and make sure you've got a good coil. They're easy to make if you don't have one.
I can send you an article about building the coil
miro |
Frazer Torode
Member
Username: nash
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 11:19 am: |
|
Here is a photo of the big bits cleaned, blasted and polished.I need to broach the new gear and cut some gaskets, paint and assemble. Then,Miro I will need information on the entire ignition circuit. |
Ned Lloyd
Senior Member
Username: ned_l
Post Number: 138
Registered: 08-2012
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 12:54 pm: |
|
Nice! |
Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert
Post Number: 878
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2017 - 12:45 pm: |
|
Nice work, but you're going to need sunglasses!
What sort of paint are you planning to use? |
Frazer Torode
Member
Username: nash
Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2017 - 02:49 pm: |
|
Thank you.
All I know is that I want a dark green colour in a marine grade paint, any input will be welcome. |
Bruce Hall
Senior Member
Username: bruce
Post Number: 601
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2017 - 06:30 pm: |
|
Do a test batch on a scrap piece of Brewster Green or try mixing a little black in your paint pot with the green |
Frazer Torode
Member
Username: nash
Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2017 - 01:10 am: |
|
Thanks Bruce, Brewster green looks wonderful. I will see if I can get it in high temp.
Progress! |
Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert
Post Number: 879
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 12:05 am: |
|
I would suggest a urethane enamel, I believe the two part mixes are the toughest. Not very nice to work with of course: a windy day or a good fan blowing would be advisable.
Unless the instructions say otherwise, I warm up the castings WITHOUT BABBIT with a tiger torch to drive out the moisture before painting. When the moisture is driven out of the pores of the metal the paint can bond better and dry faster. The warmth helps it flow better too if you're brushing it on. |
Frazer Torode
Member
Username: nash
Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2016
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 - 07:19 pm: |
|
Thanks Robert
Now, I have cleaned the con rod and cap (rust) there is a slight rocking motion to the rod assembly once fitted to the crank. I have scraped the high spots and have ended with about .002" clearance, what clearance do I need. I have three spacers two at .090' and one at .010". About to cut gaskets, may assemble next week. |
Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert
Post Number: 884
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 01:47 pm: |
|
Maybe I overstated the case regarding babbit too. Poured in place bearings aren't going to be damaged by bringing the bulk of the engine casting up to just enough temperature to drive off the moisture, which is visible on the surface around the flame of the torch. Keep the torch well away from the babbit of course! I wouldn't try it on a separate cast iron bearing shell either.
Some folks will tell you this is moisture condensed from the flame of the torch. Presumably such folk have never tried to pour babbit onto cold cast iron as the explosive venting of the moisture through the molten babbit will only need to be seen once to be convinced that that there is indeed moisture present.
For some unfortunates it was the last thing they ever saw. |
