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sinbad
New member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 08:39 pm: | 
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A motor that I have come bye. Sintz Gas Engine, Grand Rapids. I information, suggestions, literature or help of any kind to get it running.
It appears to be missing the odd part or two but is generally in good nik and turns over freely.
It has a vaporising device with induction pipes to the head cap. A pump with a resavoir one side and a pipe to the block on the other(oil?), and timing tripper that are driven by an eccentric cam on the crankshaft. The top casting of the cam follower is broken where it is bolted to the pump con rod. There are various pipes and threaded holes in the block / waterjacket ??? The cylinder head has a sparkplug or igniter and a priming cup.
The flywheel has a retracting start handle and the crankshaft has a thrust bearing at the aft end.
The ignition timing device has a small handle (Possibly to retard for starting). It has a small pillar mounting for a return spring that probably connects to the timer.
I have measured the stroke at 15cm. (6")
I will post as many photos as possible. All contributions welcome
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sinbad
New member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:00 pm: |
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I have more photos that are less than 50kb but I get an error message when i try to post them. Any suggestions ? |
sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:02 pm: |
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sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:07 pm: |
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sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:09 pm: |
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sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 7
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:10 pm: |
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sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 8
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:11 pm: |
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sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:13 pm: |
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sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:54 pm: |
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sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:03 pm: |
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Anyone know of a reversing prop set-up that would suit this motor ? |
thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas
Post Number: 282
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:40 pm: |
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So old!! and in what looks like mint condition.
This must be a 1900 or earlier? (Richard D will know)I bet that brass oil cup did not belong on the water pump intake. Looks like a threaded hole in back of cylinder for an oiler? That's a serious air preheater; maybe this was a kerosene
engine? Great pictures, thanks for sharing. |
sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 03:02 am: |
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Thanks for your comments Thomas, I reckon you are right about the oiler cup, it does have an adjusting thumbscrew under it. Should there be a glass pipe below it to monitor the drip rate ?
OK folks, any advances on the gasoline / kerosene fuel - or any other - question ?? |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 817
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 08:28 am: |
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Sinbad
Great job posting these photos of a really classic example of an Old Marine Engine.
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This is approximate info from my notes !
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Clark Sintz designed this style of engine about 1890 he moved to Grand rapids in 1893 and the engine made then was very similar ( Large side plates on cylinder etc )it had some differences from the above engine. Sintz Gas Engine Co. was sold same year 1893 to O.J Mulford ( advertising mogul that established Gray Marine Motor Co. in 1906) who was at that time part owner of the Michigan Yacht and Power Co.and using the Sintz engines in their boats, the facility was moved to Detroit in 1901-02. A guess as to date of above engine would be 1894-95 to 1901-02.
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Sinbad the rectangular slot in the starboard side plate is the exhaust ? if so then it probably had a fitting or manifold of some sort .
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Great old engine Thanks for posting it! |
sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 08:00 pm: |
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Thanks for your comments Richard. The slot on the Starb'd side is the exhaust. Would you put your money on gas or kero fuel ?. What's your guess
on the type of ignition and the manner in which it works. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 818
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 09:47 pm: |
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Sinbad
This a Sintz catalog 1895-98!
1890's hot head engine could probably use several different fuels of that time ?? |
sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 14
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 11:28 pm: |
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Great picture Richard, many thanks. It is difficult to determine which piping belongs to the motor and which may be a protection rail around it's front(??). It would be great to have plumbing and wiring diagrams as I'd hate to pour fuel in and blow it up (-:.
Is there a market for this motor ? |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 819
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:59 am: |
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Sinbad, If your thinking of selling let me know !
[email protected] |
sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 15
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:59 am: |
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This is what i think is the igniter. The threaded rod passes right through the centre. By adjusting the top, the length of the bottom is changed. Looking into the hole in the cylinder head and swinging the tripper around, a lug appears, it looks similar to the business end of the old style mortice lock key and would make contact with or come close to the bottom end of the threaded centre rod. (did a spark jump the gap ??)
The hole in the rear of the block goes through to the cylinder and when on BDC i can see across the top of the piston, so i presume it is for an oiler, The bore is quite shiny and the piston produces compression.
I don't have much time to work on it but i will post developments as they happen. 
The bore measures 12.5 cm (5") By my calculations the swept volume is 1.575 litres (98cu in?)
On the underside of the head cap there is stamped
'SINTZ GE CO' and a larger 'CD 25' Could it be 25 hp ?? |
richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 436
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:43 pm: |
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There is a very complete Sintz similar to this unit in the Penobscot Marine Museum. Searsport, ME. Unfortuanately it is very difficult to get good pictures of it. The day I was there there was no one around that would help me move it out for good photos. It is the most complete unit I have seen to date. This unit is a real relic worthy of preservation. Interesting Sintz understood the need for heating intake air and solved it long before a lot of people gave it any thought. |
sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 16
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Thank you for your interest Richard. If you ever get back to Penobscot please take a strong person with you. I'd be very keen to learn more about this motor and any info. that will help to get it running will be appreciated. |
richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 438
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 05:34 pm: |
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Sinbad, At my age it is very unlikely that I will ever get back to that wonderful Museum but surely there are others that can take a few photos of it. It is interesting as it has the attachment on the drive shaft that involve the mixture control as I remember it. Regards, Dick |
searcher
Advanced Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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Sinbad, If you have a bit of patience, I can get you some digital photos. Just let me know what specific features you would like to see. I live about 3/4 of an hour from the Penobscot Marine Museum and have visited the Palmer and Sintz engines there a couple of times. I am self employed and tend to work 7 days a week but I do occasionally sneak off for a couple of hours for important things like old iron. This is my busy season so I won't get to it for a several weeks. |
andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 1183
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 05:46 pm: |
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From Sinbad:
quote:Thanks ... I hape the boss won't dock your pay !
What i need is to identify it's parts, pipes and their functions. Also any
parts that my motor does not appear to have. If the museum has any
literature, diagrams or instructions a copy would be most helpful. Best
regards.
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searcher
Advanced Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 07:56 pm: |
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Naw. The boss is getting damned tired of working all the time, and, he is beginning to mellow a bit in his old age.
I will see what I can find by way of literature, info, etc., on that Sintz. In thinking about the last time I was there, it strikes me that I could have taken photos from any angle just as it was sitting. For the life of me, I don't know why I didn't take some then for my own library. |
sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 17
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 03:05 am: |
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Hey, all you 'Old Marine Engine Gurus' out there. It has been suggested that this is a reversing engine. Any comments or suggestions re. the reversing procedure.....Please !! |
sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 18
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 03:13 am: |
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I'm off to the US on the 19th August. To Colorado, then west and north to Vancouver by the 19th September.
Let me know if I'm coming down your street and put a beer in the icebox. |
sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 19
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 11:02 pm: |
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G'day Searcher,
Have you had an opportunity to take photos of the Sintz Gas Engine that's on display at the Penobscot Museum ? |
searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 07:36 am: |
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I went by the Penobscot Marine Museum a week ago on an impromtu trip one afternoon but my wife was in no mood to hang around while I took photos of old iron. Actually, I am kidding somewhat on that. The area where the engine is located is fairly dark and I did not have a small, high intensity flashlight with me. The autofocus on the camera doesn't function well in macro mode while set on spot field unless the point of focus is lit at least a tiny bit. Anyway, I have not forgotten about taking the photos and it is only a matter of a week or two before I will get back there for that specific purpose. |
sinbad
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 20
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 08:57 pm: |
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It happens to me too. I took the family to the Auckland Maritime Museum. Mother & children bailed out after an hour. Next time we went out she dragged me around a dress shop for 2 hours........ |
Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 114
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 11:01 pm: |
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Sinbad,
Here are some photos of the Penobscot Maritime Museum Sintz. Fascinating engine, such wonderful condition.
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John Davis
Advanced Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 02:25 pm: |
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Sinbad,
According to C.H.Wendels (BYB) Big Yellow Book page 523 Clark Sintz was the person who first designed the three port engine that you have. Pantented November 21,1893. Patent No. 509,255 he must of sold the patent writes to United Manufacturing Co. cause they advertised it as the patent that protected the engines they sold.
I tried posting the patent on this site for you as a BMP file but the tif files that the US patent office uses are so large that by the time I reduced it down to less then 100kbs it was to small to see. You will need a Tif image viewer to view it on the US patent website. If you don't know how to do this let me know and I will try to help you...
[email protected]
Regards
John Davis |
Dennis Hart
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 22
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 04:14 am: |
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Thanks John,
Having a low skill level with computers I would appreciate any assistance. If you can get the files to me in a form that I can open it would be very useful.
Many thanks
Sinbad |
John Davis
Advanced Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 47
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 08:25 pm: |
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Dennis,
Here are the first few pages of the patent for your engine. I will also email them to you.
I believe you will have to use a Tiff viewer or Microsoft Office picture manager to view them on your computer.
Patent #509255 C.Sintz.
 |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 74
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 08:46 am: |
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Check it guy's! on Ebay thought you might be interested.
1904 sales Ad Michigan Yacht Sintz Gas Engine Launch Boats
Item number: 300064510770
http://cgi.ebay.com/1904-Ad-Michigan-Yacht-Sintz-Gas-Engine-Launch-Boats_W0QQite mZ300064510770QQihZ020QQcategoryZ423QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 75
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 08:57 am: |
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Dennis Hart
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 23
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 04:51 pm: |
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Thanks John,
Firstly I must thank you for sending the patent papers, most helpful.
This advertisement is a good find. Hopefully it will not be too long before a complete or operational Sintz single cylinder 1600cc 2-stroke just like my 1893 model is discovered so that I can fill in the missing pieces and get it running. The nearest motor found so far is the one at Penobscot M.M. that Searcher found and photographed, although it has many similarities it appears to be of a smaller size and more modern. I live in hope.... |
Dennis Hart
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 25
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 08:51 pm: |
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I have weighed my motor and it tips the digital scales at 256 kg (563 lbs) in it's current state, that is without any drive gear. I believe it was imported to New Zealand, by a Jeep vehicle importer, in a boat and that the boat was subsequently re-engined. It was then put in a corner of their workshop and forgotten. If anyone has a similar Sintz please let me know |
Peters
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, October 12, 2007 - 02:46 pm: |
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Hi all,
Looks like the Detroit Boat Works was experimenting with a Sintz gasoline (they were calling it naphtha)engine in the summer of 1891, according to a Detroit Free Press article dated August 11, 1891, stating that "It is the invention of Clark Sintz, of Springfield, O., and although patented in 1877, has never before been tried as a marine engine until this year. Detroit Boat Works Company have practically secured the sole right to use it, and they will develop the engine for all they and it are worth..." Thanks to David Swayze for the article transcription! View it at www.hhpl.on.ca/GreatLakes/Scripts/News/Article.asp?ID=14253&number=3
Scott Peters |
Dennis Hart
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 28
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 12:07 am: |
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Hello Scott
Thank you for posting the information re the Sintz Naphtha motor.
I find that the article is very interesting since it helps confirm a suspicion that I have had for some time which is that the gadget on the port side if the crankcase on my motor is not a conventional carburettor that has a reserviour/float chamber, but instead a device that vapourises fuel by drawing hot air from inside the bronze cap over the cylinderhead via the two vertical pipes, and percolates the hot air through the fuel which is then drawn into the crankcase.
It also dates my motor closer to 1877 than I originally had thought |
Peters
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 10:36 am: |
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Greetings Dennis,
Glad to hear the information helped--Clark Sintz was a really a remarkable character, and I'm sure his early engines were probably quite different from one year to the next as he figured out improvements. Detroit Boat Works was turning out all kinds of stuff in the next couple of years--electric launches for the Columbian Exposition, a prototype submarine for George C. Baker, and steam yachts and launches as well, I presume, as gasoline. Guess they had all the bases covered. The president of the company was the naval architect Frank E. Kirby, who was quite an innovator himself (1st steel ship in the U.S., the tug Sport in 1873 at Wyandotte, MI.)
Out of curiosity, would you be interested in loaning the engine to our state history museum, Michigan Historical Museum? I work there in the Collections Unit, and we have a storyline element for the transition from carriages to cars that we are trying to fill with an early Sintz or P. F. Olds & Son engine. See http://www.michigan.gov/hal/0,1607,7-160-17447_18595_18596-50965--,00.html for more about the Museum.
Let me know either way, no rush.
Scott Peters |
Dennis Hart
Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 29
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 11:34 pm: |
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Hello Scott,
Thank you for this information. Another piece in the jigsaw falls into place. It amazes me how these gems surface.
I think that the cost and logistics of getting this motor to the United States would present difficulties in that it weighs 256kg (563 kg), would need a large strong crate and would have to be shipped halfway round the world, and I presume that your Museum would be financed largely by donations |
Dennis Hart
Advanced Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 31
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 11:30 pm: |
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This is a call to Richard Durgee and Richard Day in particular, and anyone that can help in providing me with an ignition system of the 'Buzz Box' type that I can use for lighting-up my Sintz. It would need to be 'period authentic', in working order, supplied with a wiring diagram.
Also any help with fuel pump, cooling and lubrication systems would be appreciated.
Did I mention info on a marine drivetrain too ? |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1550
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 12:28 pm: |
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Dennis
No buzz coil used on this engine, with the igniter in the cyl head (not a spark plug) the make and break ignition it is your timer, the old style LOW TENSION coil with a simple knife switch and 6 volt battery are all thats needed see ad from GEM magazine.
fuel pump not necessary, mount gas tank several inches higher than the mixing valve - gravity feed.
Lubrication is mixing gasoline and oil as with most 2 cycle engines. use 30W non detergent motor oil and a mix of 40:1 should be adequate.
25ML:Litre.
The grease cups on the crankshaft should be removed and see that the old grease has not hardened if so replace grease with some thing similar to old cup or water pump grease,make sure opening is clear in the crank housing all the way to the crankshaft. modern wheel bearing grease will work but will squeeze out of the shaft -(Messy) and use up faster!
Hand oiler-- oil all moving parts of the igniter system and water pump-- before starting remove the Igniter from the cyl head and squirt a few shots into cylinder, oil thrust bearing at rear of crankcase.
Originally the engine had a mechanical oiler on it ( not necessary now with gas and oil mixing) I believe it was on the tube that goes into lower part of the upper rectangular plate on the port side, I don't know what that fitting is on top by the head but make sure its capped or compression will blow out of it ! Hope this helps !
* |
Rodney L. Strain
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 08:21 pm: |
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This engine was used by Elwood Haynes, Kokomo IN in his first "horseless carriage" the Pioneer Americas first successful gasoline carriage 1893. He ordered it at the worlds fair in Chicago and took delivery in Sept or Oct the same year. I was wondering if these engines were still around. He had little success with it and in 1894 he and the Apperson brothers built their own 2 cylinder apposed 4 cycle engine!
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Rodney L. Strain
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 08:54 pm: |
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Elwood Haynes was an Indiana inventor of great success his inventions include, the muffler, mercury thermostat, stainless steel, stellite, He was also the father of natural gas and pioneered its use, collection and piping it to towns across Indiana. Sorry to get off topic! The Sintz engine may be difficult to get running reliably good luck! I've attached a pic of me in period costume on my homemade replica of the "Pioneer".  |
Dennis Hart
Advanced Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 32
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 02:48 am: |
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Hello Rodney,
Many thanks for your interesting contribution. If you have more information regarding this model Sintz I would like to learn more about it.
The figured that it had been a boat motor because it has a thrust bearing on the output shaft. Is your 'Pioneer' a working model and is it fitted with a Sintz ? |
Bobsintz
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 07:27 pm: |
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For those interested in Clark Sintz, I have posted
a biographical sketch written by his son Claude Sintz, along with some pictures and genealogical information.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dwvxkbd_9zr97b8&hl=en |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1628
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 05:08 pm: |
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Bob
Thanks for posting the Sintz Information address.
On this Old Marine Engine site you can't get a better pedigree Than SINTZ.
Clarks second son Claude at the turn of the century did some time in the army and served in spain during the Spanish American War, on his return he again picked up on mfgring marine engines and in 1905 - mid 06 advertised this Vertical Twin with the Tradename " LEADER "
This is the only one that still exists as far as I know !
By 1907 Claude had taken a partner Wallin and advertised opposed marine engines, interesting that he also trade maked these engines " LEADER"
1907
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Dennis Hart
Advanced Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 34
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 07:23 pm: |
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Here is a newspaper article from the Detroit Free Press, Tuesday August 11 1891, regarding Clark Sintz, Naptha fuled motor which may be the big brother of the 5 inch bore single cylinder Sintz Gas Engine (circ 1887) that I have. It may be of interest.
http://www.hhpl.on.ca/GreatLakes/Scripts/News/Article.asp?ID=14253&number=3 |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 253
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 09:35 pm: |
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Clark Sintz Patent update!
In my research I discovered a few more patents of interest.
First is patent # 556,069 by Clark Sintz for a carburetor he patented in 1896. See Google or U.S.Patent office website for more info.
Second is patent #1,298,262 by Clark Sintz for a self propelled tractor he patented in 1913. Patent shows a two cylinder twin oposed engine in the tractor. See Google or U.S.Patent office website for more info.
Third is patent #569,530 by Harry A. Winter assignor to the Sintz Gas Engine Co. 1896 patent for a early two cylinder engine. These pics in this patent look very close to Dennis Harts engine with exception to the extra cylinder. See Google or U.S.Patent office website for more info.
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Dennis Hart
Advanced Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 35
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 11:57 pm: |
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I agree John, it is the closest yet to the one I have. It appears to be a smaller, slightly improved model that is very much like the one that Searcher found at Penobscot. It has a similar fuel vapouriser. Where the fuel supply to mine is gravity fed, this model appears to have a fuel pump behind the flywheel that is driven in tandem from the crankshaft together with the spark timer, The waterpump is the same and the spark timer is very similar. Interestingly it has the brass induction pre-heat cap over the cylinder head. It's apparent where the cooling water enters the motor but not where it exits. Would it be possible to find the patent description? it would help identify the components and their roles.
Thanks for a very helpful contribution. |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 254
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 08:48 am: |
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Dennis,
I will tell you a way to look for patents. First go to the Google search engine. up at the top left corner of the page you should see a list of topics Images, Videos, Maps, etc.. click on the topic "More" then you will see another list of topics go to the bottom of this list and click on "even more" then your going to see a whole page of topics scroll down to you see a "light bulb icon" and beside it will say Patent search click on it. Now you will see another Google search screen with a few patents showing. Go up to the right of the little search window and click on Advanced Patent Search. Now you will see the screen where I like to do most of my Patent searchs. Type in your patent number or inventors name or assignee name and the information you want will come up. Let me know if you have any troubles and I will try to help you out. Good luck. |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 255
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 10:28 am: |
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Clark & Claude have patents for a number of different inventions. Here are a few more patents from Clark Sintz.
This first one 512,627 is for a propeller wheel patented in 1894.
Second is 383,775 for a horizontal engine patented in 1888. Not sure if it is four cycle or two cycle or what?
Third is 981,952 for a two cycle three cylinder marine engine patented 1911.
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 256
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 11:13 am: |
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Did everyone read Stan Grayson's article in the Wooden Boat magazine about Clark Sintz? I enjoyed it very much, Great Article!. Thanks to Stan and all the folks that provided information for the article. March/April issue. |
Dennis Hart
Advanced Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 38
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 - 01:08 am: |
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I had a few spare moments the other day and inspected this motor more closely. I found the letters C D 1 cast into the for'd side of the crankcase just below where the cylinder jacket meets the crankcase. Can anyone suggest what they refer to ? |
Dennis Hart
Advanced Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 39
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 05:08 am: |
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Managed to achieve posting photos
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 328
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 06:35 am: |
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Dennis,
My guess would be they are casting numbers to identify the crankcase. Are there raised numbers or letters anywhere else on the engine? Cylinder, head, etc... |
Dennis Hart
Advanced Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 40
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 05:00 pm: |
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Hi Johnny,
These seem to be the only letters or marks on the engine, other than the makers plate that is screwed to the cylinder casting. The grease cups have the oil & grease makers name. |
Dennis Hart
Advanced Member
Username: sinbad
Post Number: 42
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 04:58 pm: |
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The letters CD1 that are cast into the crankcase correspond with thoes stamped into the underside of the preheat cap which are CD 25. Does that press anyones button ? |
Grant A Jones
New member
Username: jupiter1940
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 12:45 pm: |
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Can anyone help indentify this engine??
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Grant A Jones
New member
Username: jupiter1940
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 01:01 pm: |
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Wooden Boat Magazine March/April 2010 Number 213 has an excellent article on a 1983 Sintz engine in the Penobscot Marine Museum in Searsport, Maine. The article also gives a good idea about the operation of this type of engine and of the history of the Sintz engine company. Afew days after reading the article, I saw the engine , (previous port) in a machine shop lobby and am trying to help the owner with gathering info on it. |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2596
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 06:02 pm: |
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Possible to post photo of front and other side ?
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Grant A Jones
New member
Username: jupiter1940
Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 06:20 pm: |
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More photos of old engine
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2597
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 06:38 pm: |
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1911-13 Columbia Engine Co.Detroit, Michigan.
Thanks for the good photos !
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 382
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 07:34 pm: |
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Could be anyone of three Detroit engine companies. Detroit Engine Works, Detroit Motor Car Supply Company, Columbia Engine Company. these companies and a few others were all under the ownership and management of the Wadsworth Manufacturing Company.
The pipe threaded inspection hole is normally a indication of a early model engine. Square inspection cover with four bolts started showing up around 1909-10. Your engine is missing the expansion chamber and a check valve for the water pump but all else appears to be there, Brass tapered top Detroit oilers are original. Brass Cauliflower shaped Detroit greasers are also original. For more info on your engine do a search on this website (Detroit Engine Works) and click on my website below.
http://www.antiquengines.com/Detroit_Engine_Works_Menu.htm |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2598
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 05:49 pm: |
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Johnny
Good point on the pipe threaded plug in crankcase, engine would be a few yrs older than I posted above ?
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B. Goss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 220
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2015 - 09:24 pm: |
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Here's a good article (January 2015) which gathers together much of this Sintz history in one place.
http://coolspringpowermuseum.org/Publications_Flywheel.htm |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3459
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 10:51 am: |
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Very good article, looking forward to next months
continuation !
THANKS
* |
Bruce Hall
Senior Member
Username: bruce
Post Number: 530
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 29, 2016 - 09:03 pm: |
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Sinbad, How goes the early Sintz?? Look up US patent #569,530 as John Davis points out to you on Google. It includes 4 drawings and a complete reference /text /description of how all the parts work together. |
Bruce Hall
Senior Member
Username: bruce
Post Number: 573
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 09:21 am: |
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New Zealand engine collectors, It's imperative I reconnect with Dennis Hart regarding his 1896 era Sintz marine engine. Please help!! |
Bradley Couch
New member
Username: movinman138
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2018
| | Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2018 - 11:07 am: |
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Thought you all might like a picture of the Sintz horseless carriage. By the way, I'm looking for a Sintz engine if anyone knows of one for sale. We purchased the homestead on which Clark Sintz grew up and designed his first engines. We think we should have one here on the property to honor the family that built this place. Thank you. Brad
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Jay Hart
New member
Username: jay_hart
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2022
| | Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2022 - 03:39 am: |
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Hi
This was my fathers engine post. He�s since passed and I�m in the possession of this engine, 5 yrs on and it�s still where he left it.
Is there anyone who could help me get it running? And also know a value for insurance purposes?
Thanks in advance.
Jay Hart |
Jay Hart
New member
Username: jay_hart
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2022
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2023 - 05:35 am: |
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Still hoping someone can help with a value an idea of what�s needed to get it running� |
miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 1240
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 20, 2023 - 10:09 am: |
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As long as the engine turns over , and has some compression, it should be able to make it fire.
If compression is low / modest a squirt of oil into the cylinder might help a bit. Make sure there is grease in the main bearings.
The ignition and timing will be the next step.
A decent spark plug (clean) will work OK.
Assuming a buzz coil ignition, set up the timing so the spark occurs on top dead centre.
Half a teaspoon of fuel dribbled into the cyinder should be OK.
Then from bottom dead centre flip the flywheel up against compression until you feel the engine fire - this might take a few attempts to get it up the point where the timer makes a connection.
resist the temptation to put more fuel into the cylinder - if you do that , you'll simply flood the engine and it will never fire.
If you do get it to "sneeze' then you're about 80% done.
Getting it to run - fill the dewater jacket, and set the time so that is connects about 20 degrees of flywheel rotation BEFORE top dead centre.
Flip the flywheel up against compression and the engine should fire the flywheel in the opposite direction. This is "bounce starting' it spares you from trying to over top dead centre when trying to start the engine.
If you can get this far, you're about 95% done.
Even better find a pal to help you on site |
Jay Hart
New member
Username: jay_hart
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2022
| | Posted on Monday, October 23, 2023 - 07:49 am: |
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Thanks Miro, would definitely need someone who knows what they�re doing to look at it. Not too mechanically savvy like my old man was. Could also be keen to move it on also� |
