| Author |
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Dennis Meyer
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 05:17 pm: | 
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I have a complete four cylinder Crosley marine engine and transmission and I would like to know something about it. It looks like a factory marine conversion of what I think was the little 42 c.i. Crosley car engine built in the 1940s. It's a cute little engine and I would appreciate any information anybody can give me.
Thanks,
Dennis |
donwhite
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 05:33 pm: |
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I recall Crosley engines were called "COBRA" engines. An acronym formed from Copper and Brass.
I don't know what that copper and brass referred to but the lillle sporty car they made towards the end of the Crosley Motors (of Cincnnati?) was called the "Hot Shot" and was an open 2 seater. The Crosely 2 door "SUV," ie, car/wagon, sold for about $900 in the 1947 era. Memory only, here.
I think the engines were good for 20,000-30,000 miles before overhaul. Hey, even Ford & Chevy's were overhauled at 60-75,000.
Don White, Louisville |
andrew
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 06:10 pm: |
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Was the 4 cylinder Crosley the same engine as the FAGEOL 44? Four cylinder, 44 cid, 30HP at 5500 RPM. Fageol was in San Diego, CA. The engines were mated to a V-Drive that was also made (or at least sold) by Fageol. I know I have some pictures somewhere...
What is the transmission on your Crosley?
Regards,
Andrew |
Tom Stranko
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 07:36 pm: |
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I think Andrew is right about the Fageol being
powered by a Crosley.
Didn't Crosley initially have a block made of sheets of iron soldered together with cylinder sleeves inserted? Those early blocks were bad because the soldering was never perfect and cooling water always got into the oil. (I owned a Crosley sedan in the mid 70's).
The later blocks were regular cast iron.
I'm attaching a bad picture of a Crosley block in a Fageol |
Tom Stranko
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 07:36 pm: |
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Dennis Meyer
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 12:45 pm: |
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Thanks Don, Andrew, and Tom,
I went to the garage and looked over the little Crosley and have a few more thoughts. It is just the way it came out of the boat so it still has an oily film on it, however, I could tell that this one has a stamped sheet steel valve cover instead of what looks like a cast aluminumn one in Tom's picture. The distributor is on the side of the engine instead of at the rear of the camshaft. Otherwise it looks the same. The block on this one is cast iron and I think Tom is right--early ones were made of sheet steel. The transmission looks just like a small version of the forward/reverse transmission I once had in an old Packard-engined Correct Craft.
The feature I like is the bevel gear/shaft driven overhead camshaft. I have had the cog belt on a belt driven camshaft on a car go bad prematurely, thus I think shaft drive would be better.
Andrew, I think you are right--it is 44 cubic inches displacement, not 42.
I know that there was a California company named Fageol that built unique tractors back probably in the 30s. Do you think that the same Fageol company?
Regards,
Dennis |
andrew
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 01:10 pm: |
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Dennis,
I have a copy of the Fageol 44 service manual. I don't know if the same company made tractors or note... there are a few very good Old Tractor web sites out there... including yesterdaystractors.com which might have a listing of tractor companies.
Looking at the manual a little more carefully, the Fageol logo says "Kent - Ohio", but the manual is stamped
Fageol Marine Engine. Co.
888 Gull Street - 10th Ave. Terminal
San Diego I , California
Regards,
Andrew |
olarry
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 01:19 pm: |
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Hey Dick remember that white outboard that I showed you? Well this is the same engine.Mine was rated 55hp in the Homolite bearcat outboard.Andrew has a link to a website where a fellow has restored several of thease. |
Richard Day
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 05:42 pm: |
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My late 1930s memories of the Crosely was the regular fire under the hood about every other time you tried to start the thing. One of my neighbors bought this cute little convertable and he had so many fires and rebuilds that he finally junked the whole thing. It was so poorly built you could see the Tomatoe can labels through the paint. |
olarry
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 05:59 pm: |
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Glad I didn't know that story,when I ran mine from 1970 till 1995.I wanted more power and the lower unit was giveing problems so i replaced it.The engine its self never gave any problems,and I put lots of hours on it. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 01:25 pm: |
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Didn't Kermath use the Crosley block in their Screwball series motors?? |
Bob Johnson
| | Posted on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 10:34 pm: |
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AS far as I know, the Cobra engine designation stood for Copper Brazed...early on, the whole thing was composed of a number of sheet metal stampings that were then jigged together and put into an oven and heated until it was hot enough for the copper brazing to flow and out popped an engine. Later on cooler heads (no pun intended) prevailed and Crosley changed to cast iron blocks for the reasons already mentioned in other messages. Crosley actually won something called the "Index of Performance" at Sebring(?) one year. |
Dennis Meyer
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 08:31 pm: |
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I checked into the Fageol name and briefly here's what I found. Frank Fageol came up through the ranks in a large Nash dealership in San Francisco. In the '20s he started a small tractor company in Oakland, but was not successful. He then went into the truck design and manufacturing business and that company eventually evolved into what is Peterbuilt today. He had several sons and one of his sons went into hydroplane racing and in the '50s was very successful, setting a number of world records. Other sons went into other related businesses, however, I do not know which one was connected to the inboard boat business nor do I know anything about that business.
Dennis |
beezer441
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 11:47 pm: |
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Hi guys,
Well, I see you guys are getting it right now.
The COBRA thing is right on the early engines as
I have one to be restored. 44 cu.in. is correct.
Our friend (of my son&me) used to build them for
hydroplane racing years ago. He is now starting
to build them again with my son helping, as he is
also building one of his own for an H Modified
vintage sports car. I probably can get more
information on them if anyone needs more. Oh-
they were very good eng. when built up. Also
very fast for their size. And yes, they did win,
I think, the very first Sebring if I remember
correctly. This is on the web somewhere that I
read it. Come on guys, look it up. I am new to
this stuff. OK, see ya later. And don't pick on
me either. HA! Dick Clark |
John
| | Posted on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 02:38 pm: |
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I think the "city" buses in Chattanooga back in the 50s and 60s were Fageol Twin Coaches which were built in Kent, Ohio. They had a gas engine and "automatic" transmission similar to the early Dynaflow. Later, I remember reading that the engine in those buses was an overhead cam inline six that was sometimes used in racing.
The Crosley four cylinder OHC engine was later used as the powerhead on an outboard motor that was first a Fageol and later a Homelite. |
John
| | Posted on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 02:40 pm: |
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I think the "city" buses in Chattanooga back in the 50s and 60s were Fageol Twin Coaches which were built in Kent, Ohio. They had a gas engine and "automatic" transmission similar to the early Dynaflow. Later, I remember reading that the engine in those buses was an overhead cam inline six that was sometimes used in racing.
The Crosley four cylinder OHC engine was later used as the powerhead on an outboard motor that was first a Fageol and later a Homelite. It was built for a good many years after the Crosley car was discontinued. |
Bill Fageol
| | Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 10:00 pm: |
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The Fageol brothers, William and Frank came to San Francisco in the early 1900's. They both worked at the Rambler agency there. After the earthquake in 1906, they bought out the Rambler agency in Oakland, CA. They were quite successful, Frank was a good salesman and William an excellent mechanic, a good pairing. In 1916, with the financial support of L.H. Bill, they founded the Fageol Motor Company of Oakland. The purpose of the company was to build luxury automobiles. Due to WW I, the supply of the engines, 6 cylinder SOHC Hall-Scott was cut-off, so they turned to producing trucks, and small orchard tractors. In 1921, they dropped the unsuccessful tractor business to make room for a new product, the Fageol Safety coach.
In 1927 they left Fageol Motors, moved to Kent, Ohio and founded the Twin Coach Company. The dual engine Twin Coach shocked the endustry by placing the engines under the floor. In 1930, Will developed a small delivery truck that revolutionized that industry. After WW II, the bus business fell off and they looked for other products, one project was utilization of the bus engine. The company had developed the 6 cylinder SOHC engine after the war, and then president Lou Fageol, son of Frank, put the engine in an Indy race car and indroduced it into Silver Cup Hydroplane racing (7 liter). They also purchased the Crosley engine rights and made small boat conversions, under the direction of Lou's son, Ray Fageol. They used cast blocks. This business was later sold to Homelite.
Twin Coach merged with Flxible in the mid fifties, and their aircraft division became Twin Industries. The Twin Coach name was later used on small transit coaches built by another company in Kent, Ohio. |
john and sarah
Visitor
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 10:56 pm: |
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wanted 6cylinder fageol o.h.c. engine
any condition.I know this is an outboard
kinda group but i thought some of you out
there might have some leads thanks |
gasnutte
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 05:57 pm: |
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I have a crosley marine conversion with belt "v" drive areojet marine I need a repair manual any help |
brett snow
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 04:41 pm: |
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looking for info on chevy marine 120 hp 4cyl.just bought the boat. 17' 67' glaspar. |
andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 881
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 08:27 pm: |
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Brett,
You have to detirmine who "marinized" that chevy engine. There should be a nameplate on the engine.
It is probably OMC. The tag will contain a model number, see: this link for more info. |
Steve Wooden
Visitor
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 08:29 pm: |
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This is two years later, but I have a word or two on a couple of these letters above.
1.The Crosley cast iron engine was extremely well made except for the water pump which was external and driven by the generator. Mine would turn 12000 rpm making about 50hp.Stock original rating was 26hp at 9500 rpm.
2.Fageol bought the tooling and made inboard and outboards. Homelite apparently bought that out.
3.Chevy 4 cyl engine from early Chevy II was made into I/O drive by Mercruiser called the Mercruiser 140. |
Steve Wooden
Visitor
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 08:35 pm: |
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According to historical records from World War II, the Crosley company in Cinncinati, Ohio was commissioned to make generators for PT boats during the war. This was the original COBRA(copper-brazed) engine,an abortion at the outset. They were reputed to leak and fall apart under load.(Not something I would apreciate during battle)
After the war, Powel Crosley had the same size engine redesigned for his auto company bu made with a cast iron block which was very strong. It could be suped up to 150 hp at 16,000 rpm and was done so by an Italian company. |
Nat Sherrill
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 01:26 am: |
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The notion of a Crosley based engine producing much over 75 horse power is absurd. I am very involved in racing these things and that is the absolute max on a very good day. A speed of over 10,000 RPM is simply suicide. There is no power there and there is no engine left either. They are very strong engines if built well and parts are still available if you know where to look. They are still very popular in vintagecar racing in the smallest displacement class (H mod). |
indiana jones
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 07:43 pm: |
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Hello I have 3 Fageol 44's outboards and an Aerojet inboard. They have been stored for 50 years in a shed. They apppear to be in very good shape. But I know very little about them. I also have a complete Crosley car motor with transmission. Anybody interested? |
Richard Conway
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 04:25 pm: |
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I have a yellow Fageol outboard marine engine taken off our family boat in the mid 60's and stored in the barn ever since. it ran when removed. For sale
Richard Conway, Western NC} |
mgreenb561
New member
Username: mgreenb561
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 09:36 pm: |
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I just got a 1958 wood boat without engine. The paperwork says the original engine is a Fageol VIP model FV140. I have not been able to find anything on model FV140, but my research tells me that it was probably a Crosley engine, and it evolved into a Fisher Pierce Bearcat 55.
Does anyone know if
a)I am correct and
b)where I might find one and what I might expect to pay |
mgreenb561
New member
Username: mgreenb561
Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 01:29 pm: |
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I've done some more research. I now understand the Fisher Pierce Bearcat 55 to be an outboard (I need an inboard), but the AeroJet preceded the Fageol (and they are all basically Crosley: I'm guessing he newer the date of manufacture, the greater HP); there is a Vee drive and a VIP (vertical inline power) that is mounted vertically.
My questions now are
1)How can I describe the physical difference between a Vee drive and a VIP to a potential seller who doesn't know what they have
2)Does it matter....can I fabricate a Vee drive to work, or will it just bolt in lol
3)I'm thinking that the inboard and outboard are essentially the same engine... if so, can I convert the apparently more available outboard to work as an inboard? |
billbo1
New member
Username: billbo1
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 07:06 pm: |
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My Dad used to race a crosley in a Hydroplain in the 50' and 60's He still has one. He is 82 years young and may be able to help with many questions. I was just a child and all I have is the grand memerys of the events. I have resintly started the one he still has( runs great).contact me and I'll be glad to hook you up. |
HC
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, February 08, 2010 - 08:39 pm: |
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I'm 85 was a fledling mech. late 40's. Did work on the Crosley's Like many mfg. they pushed the envelope. Had no bad problems when they were driven sedatley. They were a bitch to work on as the head and block were cast in one pc. Like aircraft so valve work was special. At the time I remember they were used in the B 29's as An axilery gen unit. m.. On the 120 it should be painted black Mercury marine used them for many years very dependable. You have to be careful when doing OH. Make sure to Mike cyls. as mercury had them built in Mexico. Those were bored 20 thd. over stock. How I know this My customer had a pair, I gave him a bid to do them that winter. A freind and he done them. Ran sweet but used oil like no tomarrow, They left oil sheen behind. The firast I knew he had a problem he showed up 3PM on the tail gate of his PU. Ck'd comp. was good. Had a cyl.leakage tester had 60 plus leakage in crankcase. The head came off had about 5/32nds end gap. them miked to get size end results OS rings 20 over. After the other engine he ran all summer . BUD . |
[email protected]
Visitor
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 04:44 pm: |
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hello, Anyone out there have suggestions on the shifting on the aerojet 5 belt v-drive..my problem is the throw of the shifter is not enough to properly engage the reverse rotating the drums together and to tighten the belts to engage forward
Thanks Tom |
dfphoto
New member
Username: dfphoto
Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 12:05 pm: |
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Hi group, my late dad has a Crossley 4 cylinder in the garage, I think the engine is from the late 40 or 50's has he was born in 1920. It seems to be in fairly good condition since it was in the garage for all this time and we live in So. Ca. so the heat is very mild here. I'd love to have someone be able to restore this or use it for their own project instead of selling it for scrap metal. Wondering if anyone is looking for this type of engine, I can take a picture but don't have it on me. Thanks David |
jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 545
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 11:07 pm: |
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Crossley's are collectable engines, don't scrap it. Was this a marine version with water cooled exhaust or an automotive engine? |
dfphoto
New member
Username: dfphoto
Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 11:28 pm: |
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I don't really know what type it is, I have a feeling it is an auto engine as I recall it looking like a normal 4 cyl... I figured it was a vintage motor, I don't have an idea what it's worth or who or how to sell it. I'm not greedy I would love someone to get it cheap and have something special. Not sure about the motor meaning I don't know if I can turn it over as I am a little limited on tools. If you know how I can try to find out more information about it I will get it to the group. I have access to it.
[email protected] |
dean peterson
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2011 - 02:59 am: |
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I have a fageol 44 marine engine aparently converted from a "V" drive to a straight drive with small transmission F/N/R says aerojet on manifold and has 1 carberator. Motor was running when removed from an old plywood boat in 1976.I would like to know some more about it -how many were actually sold,are parts available,does anyone here want to buy it,whats it worth?? please contact me [email protected] |
shan
New member
Username: shan
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2011 - 11:41 am: |
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I have a Aerojet Crosley engine Ser# R2O99Oo
CWC 1A Manufactured between 1952&1955 after crosley sold out to General Tire. Engine is complete.Don't Know about the internal parts condition. Can anyone tell me what its worth or is any one interested? You may contact me at [email protected] |
Zzzzlinda
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 09:12 pm: |
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My dad passed and left about 8 crosley aluim heads and we're wondering what to sale them for |
George R. garrison
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 10:01 pm: |
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I'm looking at a Crosley powered hydro wondering if there's any parts still out there. What do you want for those heads.
Many years ago our family had a Carlisle Marine wood boat that was powered by a Fageol Marine engine. Now, I'm discovering it was probably a Crosley powerplant. We sold the boat to a car dealer in Dover Delaware in 1962 after the Great March Storm on the east coast. The boat was owned by a boat racer from Chestertown Maryland before we bought it. It was a beautiful vessel but was nothing but one headache after another.
I was only 15 at the time and don't remember a lot about the boat.
I'm located in Delmar Delaware |
geezer
New member
Username: geezer
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2014
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 - 03:25 pm: |
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I have a Fageol 44 VIP engine I am no loonger interested in. Engine appears complete except missing water pump. Includes transmission.
Located Newport, OR. |
larry samonek
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 06, 2015 - 08:32 am: |
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I have a fageol 44 vip,engne appears compete has a outboard on it.no longer interested in it.wood like to sell.located in calif sfbay ,you can call 510-706-0872 larry} |
cathyfew
New member
Username: cathyfew
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2015
| | Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2015 - 07:26 pm: |
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whats a Fageol vertical inboard motor worth |
Grant Whipp
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 08:56 pm: |
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Hi! Great info on this thread! My name is Grant, and I have a Fageol/Aerojet V-drive unit ... it is complete with engine, but I'm missing the prop shaft & prop, shaft log, trunion bearing assembly, and rudder. If anyone can assist me in locating these parts, I'd greatly appreciate it! You can drop me an e-mail at info@lilbear@teardrops.net or call 530-605-0982 ... Thanks! |
jbuck5
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2015 - 12:22 am: |
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Can anyone tell me if a standard Aerojet boat motor has the same 26 1/2 h.p. as the crosley car has. Thanks for any help |
Dale Watson
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2016 - 09:41 pm: |
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I have most everything Crosley, appliances , boats , engines,
Wall art, have hat the air cooled 2 cyl cars, hot shots , pickups , farm o roads generators they are simple to fix and tough as nails if used sensibility .
Dale Watson Maine |
garycolwill
New member
Username: garycolwill
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2017 - 08:02 pm: |
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Wow - this thread has been around for ages! I've got a Fageol 44 VIP for sale - see my newer post. |
