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Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 623
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2014 - 11:25 am: | 
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This ad was in MotorBoat and what you see is the entire description, there was no name provided. Interesting engine. The flywheel should help narrow down the possibilities.
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3323
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 10:42 am: |
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what is month -day-year of the Motorboat issue ?
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Johnsmietana
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 11:49 am: |
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Looks like a Phelps.I have a 3 cylinder that has a flywheel looks like that. |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3324
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 12:49 pm: |
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Fan Bladed flywheels don't narrow the field down, it takes the engines into the automobile, truck & stationary field and that's a lot of engines!
Fan blades were designed to draw air through cooling radiators in closed systems. there can always be an acception but I have never seen a bladed wheel on a marine designed engine.
The marine engines we see with blade wheels are conversions or marinized engines !
This is John's Phelps
database notes
Phelps Motor Car Vehicle Co.
Lucius J.Phelps was a manufacturer of automobiles in Stoneham, Massachusetts between 1903 and 1905.The 1904 Phelps was a touring car model. it could seat 4 passengers and sold for US$2000. The vertically mounted water-cooled straight-3, situated at the front of the car, produced 15Hp.
I recall reading that some of these engines were used in truck chassis ! a great example of a great engine marinized !
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Bill S. some years back,posted photos of his rare Paige-Detroit Motor Car Company conversion engine
data base notes
Harry Jewetta wealthy miner Founded Company in 1909 to build automobiles, 1909-1911 two cycle 3 cylinder were made, these engines were converted or marinized in the Companies marine department. Company later was known as Graham -Paige automobiles.
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Companies that converted all kinds of engines to marine use were plentiful and still are !
This was a well known west coast Company in 1917
How about the illustration at the top of the ad
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Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 624
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 03:04 pm: |
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The ad at the start of this thread was on Page 198 of the April 10, 1916 issue of MotorBoat. On Page 205 of that same issue is an ad for a six cylinder Herr-Brooks engine. I will post that ad as soon as I can have access to the scanner.
Harbor Freight sells a 19" by 14" plastic dolly on four wheels that is rated for 200lbs. The price was about $12 each. Last week I bought 9 of them and placed an engine on each one. They worked great on the concrete floor. With one hand I could roll an engine wherever I wanted it to go. Now for the downside, at least for some of us. Virtually all the plastic wheels in Home Depot, Lowes, local hardware stores, Harbor Freight, etc., are made in China. For whatever reasons, Chinese plastics, including the wheels and the deck of these dollies, are loaded with what I believe to be phthalates. These are chemicals used to soften plastics and they give off a strong gas. I discovered the hard way that I am alergic to phthalates. I had to remove all Chinese wheels and plastics from my office/engine room. I have had four fans running for three days trying to clear the gas out. I think by tomorrow I can get back into the office for short periods. These little dollies are perfect for the purpose but I think anyone would be well advised to buy just one and put it in an enclosed space for a few days to be sure they can tolerate the outgassing. |
B. Goss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 215
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 08:16 pm: |
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Richard - but you have seen a bladed flywheel on a marine designed engine...
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/1/7220.html
Halfway down this page Larry shows two great examples of his Canadian Gas Power & Launches engines, both with bladed flywheels.
Here is a description of the opposed engine from their c.1906 catalog (when they were called Toronto Gas & Gasoline Engine Co). The final sentence describes the intended function of the flywheel fan in this case.
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Blair |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3325
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 04:05 pm: |
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Blair
Have been trying to do a little looking into information around your above post, more questions than answers-
In larrys post does the Opposed engine have a name plate or papers or catalog photos to put the Canadian Gas Power & Launch Company name on it ??
The green 4 cyl engine has writing on the crankcase side cover but photos are poor and I can't quite decifer it ??
As to The Toronto Gas & Gasoline Engine Co catalog photo above, I have not been able to find much information on them because of the severe trade restrictions with the United States in those days ?
This is 1905
Have had little info available about these founders and what the company was doing in its second year of production, such as were they mfging present patented engnes and or buying other mfgrs engines and rebadging them ?
In my data base I have seventeen different opposed marine engines listed the only ones with bladed fan flywheels are the two Canadian Companies refered to here ??
Any Info Appreciated !
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3326
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 - 06:18 am: |
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This 1906 ad may explain the design source of the
4 cycle opposed Toronto Launch engines ?
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B. Goss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 216
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 - 08:53 pm: |
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Good info Richard. It looks like they may have used the bladed flywheel as a marketing draw on both accounts; to blow bilge gasses when advertising launches and to draw air through a rad when marketing to auto makers.
I've never seen an auto application of this engine, but it sure would be neat to see one in a pre-1910 truck!
I believe that the Toronto Launch & Engine Co. Ltd. that you noted 2 posts above was a separate, unrelated company.
I also believe that all three of Larry's engines have the Canadian Gas Power & Launches tag on them; the opposed engine has a brass tag and the 4 cylinder has large, raised letters on the crankcase noting CGP&L.
Based on the literature and tags that I have seen, I would say that the following timeline is close for this related group of companies (still in evolution as new info surfaces).
189? to 1899 - The Gas and Gasoline Engine Co. Limited
1899 to 1905 - The Gasoline Engine Co. of Toronto Junction Limited
1905 to c.1908 - Toronto Gas and Gasoline Engine Co. Limited
c.1908 to 1913 - Canadian Gas Power and Launches Limited
Maybe the first two are just variations on the same name, making only 3 name changes instead of 4? The products being sold generally remain consistent through the name changes.
Some good discussion has taken place on Smokstak which has helped to refine these dates.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115867
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68507
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116012
Sorry about getting sidetracked from the bladed flywheel topic.
Blair |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3327
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 - 09:45 pm: |
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Blair, Thanks for the info on these companies I have struggled for years trying to find if they had ties and what years and what engines they mfgrd, every bit helps put the puzzle together !
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