| Author |
Message |
    
Bruce McFadden
Visitor
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 10:40 pm: | 
|
I have an M-60 that was working great then I had a problem with fuel coming out of exhaust. I changed the fuel pump and changed the oil a few time but the engine was more difficult to start. Now it will not start at all and no oil seems to be circulating in the engine at all. New oil filter is bone dry. I feel like as much as it ran with no oil and 1 and 3 cylanders are not firing at all the rings and more are shot. My question is what pumps the oil and how hard is it to fix. I read in a manual that there is a valve that can get clogged but I dont know where it is. I would love to get it started enough to get back to the service dock and put away for the winter. |
David Grosse
Member
Username: davidg
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 07:01 pm: |
|
Bruce, The oil is pumped by a metal twin gear pump located behind the flywheel in the motor's upper right area. That is probably not the problem.
The oil is picked up from the pan through a screen, and then a tube that feeds the pump. That could be a problem if the suction line has come loose. The strainer screen is large and is probably not a cause for concern.
You mention a lot of issues and they may be hiding more than an oil change. Maybe a little better explanation of the sequence of your repairs and the reason for them would help. For example, did you replace the fuel pump because fuel came out the exhaust? Did you change oil a few times and that is why the engine is hard to start?
I have just done virtually a full rebuild on a Palmer M60 engine that someone else reportedly rebuilt, but they did not put anything together right, and I would be happy to help you step through some testing to see what is really going on. Can you send me some pictures also?
-David |
Bruce McFadden
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 10:56 pm: |
|
The sequence is that i started getting fuel coming out of the exhaust. I replaced the fuel pump on the advice of a mechanic and that seemed to help the fuel in the exhaust problem. Then I changed the oil and found the oil full of fuel so I changed the oil and filter. I changed the oil a few time only because there was so much fuel in the oil. By change i mean i cycled oil through a few time and let it drain out thinking it would remove more leftover fuel. The engine at this time was having trouble starting meaning it would not start on the first try as it used to do. I did not have a oil pressure indication because the sending unit or gage has long ago stopped working. (I did not realize until doing research for this that you can use any sending unit as long as you use the gage that goes with it). This year when trying to fire up the engine it would not start but would fire. 3 times when trying to get it to start it would start but only run for about 20 seconds then quit. i checked the oil and it seemed way too clean and then checked the filter and found it bone dry. After checking the plugs it looks like 2 and 4 are firing but 1 and 3 are not. I am getting spark on all 4 plugs. I don't have any pics downloaded right not but I can get them. |
David Grosse
Member
Username: davidg
Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, November 02, 2013 - 01:29 pm: |
|
Bruce,
The first thing I would want to have right is the oil. I suggest you try this and see if you get the oil to pump:
1. Turn off (if it isn't) the raw water inlet valve for engine cooling.
2. Check that the dipstick shows a satisfactory oil level in the pan, and add oil if necessary.
3. Check to see that the gear oil pump has oil in it (primed) by adding oil at the small plug right side of engine just below the front of the manifold (may be a cap screw 1/8"NPT plug), or by putting oil into the filter reservoir, and waiting a few minutes for it to rundown. Both these actions should assure that the pump is primed.
4. Remove all the spark plugs and pull the coil lead from the coil or distributor.
5. Remove the oil pressure sender and/or uncap the oil filter.
6. Crank the engine for a while and observe oil running out the oil pressure sender pipe/port and or filling up the oil filter reservoir.
If you get oil coming out you know the pump is working and just needed some priming. If you don't get oil coming out, then you have an oil pick up problem internally, or a plugged passage close to the pump, or the unlikely broken oil pump.
If you have oil, then you can proceed with the other fixes as necessary.
-David |
Bruce McFadden
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - 02:04 pm: |
|
I have primed the pump and that did not work. I am going to check the oil pressure relief valve (if I can find it, had some trouble the last time I was looking for it). The issue I last discovered was that I changed the oil to prime it and stuck my finger in the drain hole. When I did that something was coming across the hole like maybe the screen you were talking about. Is it possible that it came loose and fell down.? It seems like maybe it was at an angle but maybe it should be coming across that drain hole. Wondering if that pick up tube is the issue. Did not work on it over the winter and now I'm bound and determined to get this thing fixed. |
David Grosse
Member
Username: davidg
Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - 03:53 pm: |
|
Bruce, The oil pick up screen is about 3" in diameter and pretty big mesh. It is held in place by two bolts. the pick up tube is a screw on fitting also. It does not seem likely that either one of these would have come undone. I can send you some pics if that will help of the oil pump and pick up tube and strainer.
In the motor installation in your boat, can you pull the oil pan or flywheel?
-David |
Bruce McFadden
Visitor
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2014 - 01:57 pm: |
|
I can pull the flywheel for sure and probably and oil pan but it's pretty shallow. |
Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2014 - 08:27 pm: |
|
Seems to me I remember the oil pressure relief valve was spring loaded under a hex head nut on the port aft side of the engine just under the distributor drive housing. It was a very light spring and it acted as a by-pass to maintain nominal oil pressure in the various passages of the cam shaft etc. drive. |
David Grosse
Member
Username: davidg
Post Number: 23
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 09:40 am: |
|
Bruce, The flywheel pull is fairly simple and will get you right to the oil pump so you can check it. Pry from side to side, after you have taken out the bolts, and it should work its way loose. After checking the pump out, you could also take off the front crankshaft seal housing casting and see the oil pick up tube connection.
-David |
Bruce McFadden
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2014 - 09:31 am: |
|
Got the nut to the oil pressure valve loose and took of the nut and the spring came out with no problem and was clean and covered in oil. Other then that is there anything else I should have looked for? Measured the spring and it was the correct length according to the engine manual. Don't know what else to look for in that valve. Was also wondering what the access plate on the starboard side of the engine directly across for the nut to the valve spring was.
Tried to get the flywheel off and had no luck. Took off the 4 bolts and shimmied, pulled, and tapped with a hammer but no luck. Since I didn't get it off I was not able to look at the oil pump. Any hint on how to get it off? |
David Grosse
Member
Username: davidg
Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2014 - 11:03 am: |
|
Bruce, I have been successful with a very large screwdriver. A crowbar or picklefork (used on balljoints) could also work. You may need an "L" or "J" shaped bar for your access restrictions. My experience is with the engines out of the boat.
You have to also be careful not to damage the teeth where the starter engages. By prying one side and then the other repeatedly, I have been able to get them to come loose. I don't think tapping or hitting is a good choice.
Good luck, - David |
