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rbprice
Senior Member
Username: rbprice
Post Number: 442
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 09:26 pm: | 
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My friend and neighbor, Kevin Stewart, has acquired a Palmer LLH engine. It spent some time sumerged in a lake so it is in need of lots of work but is eminently restorable. It is missing some parts but Kevin thinks he has a line on the exhaust manifold. Does anyone have a catalog or some pictures that would help with things like the carburetor, generator, starter etc.
The serial number is 3082444 and the head is marked with a casting date of 2-25-44. Does that mean that Palmer was making these engines in the middle of WWII? Also, the distributor on the front of the engine is a piece of junk that someone stuck into the oil fill pipe.
Thanks
 
 
 
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miro
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 726
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 - 02:29 pm: |
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Does the head have TWO spark plugs per cylinder?
That has implication for the distributor - although for a show engine there are ways to deal with that..
miro |
rbprice
Senior Member
Username: rbprice
Post Number: 444
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 - 02:52 pm: |
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Yes it does Miro - but as you point out, one does not need that to run it. The unused holes have an original closure plug in them. But it does raise the question as to why it was designed that way. It is rated @ 20-25 HP which hardly puts it in the racing boat class. Richard Durgee says he thinks it is from the late 1930's which the design configuration confirms but that foundry date on the head makes me wonder about its birth date. |
rbprice
Senior Member
Username: rbprice
Post Number: 445
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 - 02:58 pm: |
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Also note the hydraulic pump that takes oil from the base of the gearbox and feeds it back into the engine. That is certainly different. Maybe the dual plugs and that positve oil pressure system was part of a military specification for the Admiral's dingy to assure reliability. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3113
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 - 03:55 pm: |
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This is a 1934 Palmer ad and the LLH or Big Huskie
is not listed, but this may be the source of the L head Blocks ??
* |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1749
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 - 07:25 pm: |
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Palmer HH and LLH engines are not conversions they are/were all Palmer |
richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 1086
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 - 08:05 pm: |
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Bob, Go to the Palmer serial number file and slide down to the LH and the follow on LLH etc. notes. This engine in my opinion is one of the 3000 Palmer was required to build for the government for use in life boats for Liberty ships and similar applications. I have one which you may want to look at while you are here for the May show. Some had dual ignition with magneto and and battery ignition. I was a guest of the army during WWII and they most hospitably stuck me on a troop ship with 6000 other reluctant guests. 55 days from Leghorn Italy to Manila. When we got to Manila the crew lowered one of the life boat to the main deck rail so the Capt. and his seniors could get into the boat. Then they lowered them over the side. Once in the water one of its crew cranked the engine over and it started on the first crank and they took off for the beach. I have a few photos which I will dig out. |
rbprice
Senior Member
Username: rbprice
Post Number: 446
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 08:35 am: |
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Thanks a bunch Dick and Ernie - now we know for sure that the engine WAS made in 1944 and why it has dual spark plugs. Did it have a magneto or a distributor for the ignition? |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1750
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 02:38 pm: |
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From Dick Day
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1751
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 02:40 pm: |
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The oil pump only moved oil to the front of the engine. As you can see in the pic above it went from the pump to the top of the timing case with the usual Palmer oil flow site glass. |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1752
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 02:47 pm: |
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Note brass cuff protector on the flyheel hub of the hand start. Pull out handle for flywheel not shown in this view. Note no mag on the electric start version
version |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1753
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 02:58 pm: |
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Starter version of LLH. Note part 255 and crank 255A are included on the electric start but no magneto is shown. Vbelt generator drive. Beleive this photo is WWII.
This shows the starter and separate generator. Note crank support on front of crankshaft and flywheel housing.
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1754
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 03:01 pm: |
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Palmer produced about 3000 at about 13 per day of these units during WWII. According to Ray Bolling most were made to have hand start for lifeboats
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rbprice
Senior Member
Username: rbprice
Post Number: 448
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 03:37 pm: |
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Thanks a bunch Ernie - that is just super info.
Could you plse email me copies of those pictures and diagrams?
And the comaparison with my Red Wing Meteor Four is interesting too. The Red Wing is 20 HP @ 2700 RPM, the LLH is 20 HP @ 1400 RPM: the Red Wing weighs approx 255 lbs: the LLH 475 |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1755
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 04:13 pm: |
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One days production during the war
I don't have the originals they belong to DD
Comparison is simple the Palmer is a lot bigger engine. Same HP less RPM
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3114
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 11:25 pm: |
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1938
1939
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matthew mcwilliams
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 - 10:54 pm: |
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your palmer engine is from a world war 2 liberty ship life boat. i have 2 of them that where purchased from the navy on sealed bid in 1963. that motor does not have a distributor. for reliability in the open ocean it used a fairbanks morse type FM magneto that was driven by the water pump. you will see 4 small holes in the center of the head, 1 for each cylinder. those holes where for brass primer cups that would be filled with gas to make the engine start faster. |
