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Message |
    
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2997
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 06:45 pm: | 
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Sterling Engine list 1916
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1625
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 07:07 pm: |
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Richard,
Anything on an 10 HP E with a bronze base in any of your other stuff? Mine is early I think S/N 110.
Thanks
Ernie |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2998
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 07:48 pm: |
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Sterling Engines 1914
Rare to find ads that include Sterling "KID"
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2999
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 08:00 pm: |
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Sterling 1912
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3000
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 08:48 pm: |
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Ernie, I finally found this ad once again after posting it several yrs ago !
1913
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bruce
Senior Member
Username: bruce
Post Number: 368
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2013 - 12:25 am: |
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Richard, Can you date my 8-10 Hp Model "C" twin Sterling? |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3001
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2013 - 12:19 pm: |
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Bruce I would really like a photo of this engine and a good one of the tag ???
I have not been able to find any info that dseignates the model "C".
All info up to 1909 does not mention an 8 Hp engine, 1910 ads say 8 to 240 Hp, and this ad
from a German language Rudder 1911 actually shows an 8-10 Hp 4 cycle
1911
Early 1913 ads still list the 8-10 but mid year
the 10 Horse Sterling Kid was the new star in the line up !
1910-early 1913 a real piece of old marine engine history !!
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1626
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2013 - 12:20 pm: |
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Thanks Richard |
ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 110
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2013 - 10:14 pm: |
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Nice Richard!
Thanks,
Lew |
ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 111
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2013 - 12:11 am: |
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Does anyone know if there are any of the 150 HP overhead valve 8 cylinder race engines left on the planet?
Maybe Danny?
Cheers,
Lew |
rbprice
Senior Member
Username: rbprice
Post Number: 427
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 09:31 pm: |
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I have a pristine 1913 Sterling full line catalog - will drag it out and see what is in it. |
ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 118
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - 01:49 pm: |
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Hey RB,
I would love to see what is in the 1913 full catalog.
Cheers,
Lew |
rbprice
Senior Member
Username: rbprice
Post Number: 429
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - 05:39 pm: |
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Well it turns out it is a 1914 catalog. It is 48 pages showing a lot of engines -
8 cyl Model R; 4 cyl Model E "Kid"; 8 cyl Model R-1, 4 cyl Model B-3; both 30 & 75 HP; three versions of the R-1; 60 HP; 90 HP & 135 HP; 6 cyl Model D-4, 70 HP, 4 cyl Model D-4, 45 HP; 8 cyl Model D 100 HP; 2 cyl Model C 10 HP; 2 cyl Model C 15 HP;
RBP |
mac
New member
Username: mac
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2013
| | Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 04:38 pm: |
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Anybody know the difference in spec between a Model B and R in aluminum base? |
ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 129
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 09:31 pm: |
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Are you asking about the R1 series (R1-55-60, R1-90 & R1-135)? Or the R series early race engines?
The model B is essentially the same as the R1 series but available in heavy duty, medium duty and "Speed" versions.
Let me know a little tighter parameter and I can get you the specs you are looking for.
Cheers,
Lew "The West Coast Sterling Guy" |
mac
New member
Username: mac
Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2013
| | Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 06:40 pm: |
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Hi Lew
Many thanks for the response, and apologies for the delay in getting back to you.
The engine is a 1910 B3 4 cylinder with alloy base, that I am wondering if the rev range can be increased to 1500rpm as the R series to give the engine/boat greater speed flexibility. If the technical differences are simply stronger valve springs or are the differences more complex.
Graham |
ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 130
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 08:39 pm: |
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Hi Mac,
Glad to hear from you. Here are 2 pages from a 1914 short form catalog on the model B-3 4 cylinder. Take a look and see if you can figure which engine you have. Here are more details on the Medium and Speed engines from another document:
20 to 35 HP is a 4.375 Bore x 5.5 stroke. Medium is equipped with an iron base while speed has an aluminum base. Speed engines may run up to 1200 RPM and have a lighter flywheel at 16" Diameter while the Medium duty flywheel is heavier at 20".
30 to 50 HP is a 5.5 Bore x 6 stroke. Medium is equipped with an iron base while speed has an aluminum base. Speed engines may run up to 1200 RPM and have a lighter flywheel at 17.5" Diameter while the Medium duty flywheel is heavier at 22".
If you are going to restore this engine, doing a good balance job and reducing spinning mass inside may help you to increase the power and RPM range a little. Be careful to observe proper oiling if you are increasing wear due to increase load and RPM. You may also need to increase the fuel supply as well. But remember that the intake manifold plumbing and the primitive carbs will also act like a governor by slowing your fuel charge velocity to the cylinders.
The valve springs were adequate to close the valves at the low RPM that these engines operate at. With the roller lifters, the valve train really operates well.
Let us know which engine you have from the info provided here and what your plans are. We would love to see some pics too!
Cheers,
Lew "The West Coast Sterling Guy!"
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ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 131
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 09:08 pm: |
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Hi Mac,
More questions:
What leads you to believe that your Model B is a 1910 version? In the 1910 catalog, most engines are shown still with the cylindrical brass total loss oiler with individual drip valves mounted to the #1 cylinder. It also shows a brass piston type water pump driven by a 90 degree adapter from the exhaust cam between the rear of the engine and the reverse gear.
The first year that I find reference to the B2 or B3 is 1914. The 1910, 11, 12 and 13 full line catalogs only list the versions of the Model B.
In 1911, the addition of a Manzel type of driven oil pump was added along with the patented Brush oil scoops on the rods and the contoured base.
I am still looking.
Cheers,
Lew |
keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 414
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 08:23 pm: |
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Lew, Any thoughts on this one or catalog info?
Keith |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3299
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 10:35 pm: |
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is the Hp 45.55 or 45.65
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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 417
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 10:41 pm: |
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45.65 hp and the serial number is 170966. They had to dyno the engine to get that figure. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3300
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 10:55 pm: |
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1911 ad
The 45.65 was rated in their SPEED ENGINES.
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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 419
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 11:03 pm: |
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Thanks Richard for the posting. I'll measure the flywheel tomorrow. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3301
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 11:18 pm: |
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April 1912
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ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 145
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 11:56 pm: |
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Hi Keith,
That engine is beautiful! Really interesting in seeing different ages in the engine. Richard is correct in that this is one of the speed rated engines of the model B line. It has a slightly smaller flywheel than the medium speed engine B. Thank you Richard.
What is really interesting to me is that the crank case covers are of the early 1906-1908 style, yet is new enough to have a mechanical Manzell style lubricator but is still total loss.
The ID plates are not the early stamped brass plates of 1906-1908/9. But are not the porcelain enameled plates of 1911/1912 and newer.
The manifolding and hardware is the same as used in 1911 through 1914. But the reverse gear cover is not the enclosed type of 1911 and newer.
So with what you have, 1910 or early 1911 is spot on.
Please send more pics of the engine for my records and history files. It is beautiful. I would love to see more of the ignition system. Is it a Bosch D-6 or DR-6 Dual Mag? Sterling documentation of the day shows both Bosch and Berling mags as being available. Bosch was the most requested in the day but Sterling did a lot of business with Berling being Buffalo boys. The Berling DD-66 Dual/2 spark or the DR-6 Dual/2 spark would have been the most common ignition used. The Coil looks like a Bosch Dual model A and the bracket is REALLY cool. It looks factory from what I can see but I have never seen one in pics before. Too cool!
What size and model of Schebler carb?
Does she run? What is it going to be used in?
Thanks,
Lew The West Coast Sterling Guy! |
mac
Member
Username: mac
Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2013
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 02:21 pm: |
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Hi Lew,
Very many thanks for the info and questions, some time ago! I guess time flies when you�re busy, though I somehow missed seeing your responses.
So clearly my engine is later, perhaps 1914? As you�ll see from its plate it is a B3 20-35 HP speed model, that has had a Stromberg M2 fitted and the flywheel is 16" + starter ring so 17�.
Is it fitted with a Manzel type of driven oil pump, and does the sight gauge just show oil flowing as presumably it does not give any form of oil level indication?
Good to know it will run up to 1200 RPM which presumably would increase it over 35HP anyway when new, if the Std model is rated at 35HP at 1000 rpm
It has been balanced and fitted with alloy pistons and oil scraper rings, new springs and valves before I bought it, and I�m presuming the Stromberg M2 will work well with it.
I�m actually in the UK, and have a similar age of Gardner petrol/ paraffin engine, 20 HP inlet over exhaust, with separate pots, introduced in 1910, though mine is 1919. This though does have a small plunger oil pump, so a total loss type is new to me, and I expect to be extremely careful with oil levels especially until used to it. Any other tips would be most welcome, as I am no engineer!
You say �The valve springs were adequate to close the valves at the low RPM that these engines operate at.� So presumably you rate 1200rpm as low, presumably this is in comparison with modern engines?
I had thought the Rushmore starter was a later addition, but am now wondering if that was fitted new �any ideas on that?
I�ve enclosed a couple of pics of the engine, and a period photo of �Scolopendra� that she will be fitted in for 2015.
Thornycroft designed and built �Scolopendra� in 1903 to the first set of rules for Motor Racing Boats in Britain, the MMA 30� Launch class. Their entry for the first Harmsworth (British International)Trophy in Cork, Ireland, �Champak�, was not ready so was substituted with �Scolopendra� and raced by Tom Thornycroft and his bother Sir John E Thornycroft , becoming runner up, before winning a Handicap race, the Yachtsmans Trophy, and then later in 1903 winning the Cowes cup. In 1904 she was sold to the Canadian Govt, as a high speed chase launch for anti-smuggling and poaching on Lake Erie, and operated from the CGS Petrel, and later from CGS Vigilant.
About 1912, she was sold into private hands, going back to some local racing on Georgian Bay, before being modernised by having her stern chopped off and re-engined, possibly at Gidley Bros.
�Scolopendra� was originally fitted with a Thornycroft A4 20HP engine, which is similar in size, layout and weight to the Sterling. Due to �Scolopendra�s� historical significance ultimately I am looking for an A4. The only one not in a car, has been powering a wood saw in Australia, for a few years now, and whilst I have photos sent by E Mail, the Museum they were sent to has lost the contact address. So I assume this may take me a while, and in any case the Sterling is probably a lot more practical �well relatively at least!
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mac
Member
Username: mac
Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2013
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 03:25 pm: |
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Further to last post   |
mac
Member
Username: mac
Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2013
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 03:27 pm: |
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Last photo is Scolopendra in 1903, the boat the B3 will be fitted into for 2015 |
ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 146
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 04:32 pm: |
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Hi Mac,
Great to hear from you and for posting pics. This is great to see a pair of Sterling Model B engines posted within 24 hours of each other. And what a great looking engine too!
What reverse gear will you be fitting the Sterling up with for the boat installation. Too bad that your Model B is not a marine engine. But in the teens and prior, there were few differences between a commercial and marine engine. The normal differences were the oil pan construction and size, sometimes a different carb with a governor, some of the water plumbing and of course no reverse gear. Some of the commercial engines were fitted with an in-out clutch. This was often listed as a PTO (Power Take off).
While I do not think the carb you have is stock, it should work well if matched size wise. Your flywheel and ring gear look great for operation. The flywheel looks like a typical Sterling flywheel of early to mid teens based on the bar holes but others did use that style too. But the ring gear is not period from Sterling. They changed size and modified the starting bar holes around 1917, I think from pics and research.
The starter and mount is not typical of Sterling in the day. Their first starters were actually chain driven motor-generators. The crank was fitted with a small diameter gear behind the flywheel.
Your starter looks much newer however, and the mounting of the starter looks nothing like the type I have seen in Sterling documents or the one on one of my engines. For the period, Most starter installations usually had a semi flat cast aluminum shelf or in Sterling's case, a welded steel shelf. This would be mounted to and braced off of the side of the engine. This would often replace the forward crankcase access plate. (You can see the shelf and gear on one of my engines here.) A starter motor (motor-generator) would bolt to that plate. That said, a lot of different shops would adapt different starters however they desired through the years and using the latest technology of the day.
I have a starter installation with the same looking flywheel and ring gear on a 1911 Wisconsin model AM marine engine with a Bijur starter and stock cast mount. While I believe this to all be factory, I think it was a later option provided by the factory. This would validate the age potentially but the Sterling documentation shows something different. That said, it could still be a later engine or a later Sterling retrofit. So other than relative age, your guess is as good as mine without more digging.
What make and model of Magneto is on this engine?
I have sent via email to you (due to size and file type) 3 scanned pages from the 1914 Sterling catalog that show and describe the 1914 B3 20-35 HP marine engine. The last page is on their starter option demonstrating what was stated above.
Cheers,
Lew "The West Coast Sterling Guy"
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mac
Member
Username: mac
Post Number: 7
Registered: 09-2013
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 05:34 pm: |
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Lew
VERY many thanks for all that -absolutely brilliant!
I have to agree with you, they are both good looking engines, though mine will be in for a new colour scheme when I get it to the UK.
However I haven't checked it has a reverse as it never occurred to me!! That I must now do.
You say it isn't a marine engine, but on the opposite side of the block to the engine no there is a little fish stamped and I was told that does denote it as a marine engine. Currently the engine is 4,000 mile away which is a short term problem for checking these things out!
If it hasn't got a reverse I guess I'll be looking for another 1:1 Velvet Drive, and seeing if it can be shoe horned in.
re the starter motor, it's currently mounted on a flat palate as the original sump inspection plate had its attachment flanges broken off, so it does look like a factory fit. I gather Bosch Rushmores started about 1910. I'm also pretty shure its 12V, and needs a double throw switch. A Motor generator, would have been very convenient though! |
ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 147
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 12:27 am: |
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Hi Mac,
Never mind about not being a marine engine. I just got a chance to see your pics on a real computer and see that you do have the high-speed aluminum extended pan for a reverse gear. I only saw an output shaft before and did not see the pan. So...even better!
Where is the engine now?
Cheers,
Lew |
keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 420
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 08:13 am: |
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Lew,Richard
Did you get my email with pictures?
Keith |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3304
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 09:51 am: |
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Keiths additional photos of Sterling Model B 6 Cylinder
Schebler Model L
Controls
Magneto
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mac
Member
Username: mac
Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 07:01 pm: |
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Hi Lew
A couple of queries if you can help me.
1. My engine has a loose cog on the drive shaft between the engine and gearbox. Any idea what that was for?
2. If I shortened the heated inlet pipe about 2 " so I can clear an engine bearer, would that have any impact on the engines running?
Mac |
ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 148
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 07:30 pm: |
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Hi Mac,
Glad to hear from you. I hope your project is proceeding well. Please send progress pics for us all to see!
As to question number 1. I am not sure what you are referring to as a lose cog. Perhaps more of a description, or, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
As to question number 2. I am taking it that you are referring to to the vertical intake pipe between the top of the carb and the bottom of the intake manifold. If this is the case, my thoughts are that the difference will be minor. You will have a small reduction in torque due to a slight reduction in charge velocity. But this may actually assist you in starting when warm and not using the priming cups. It may be easier starting in not having quite as far to lift the fuel at cranking speed. Getting above the stringer would be a good thing in allowing you to have a wider stringer for better support. I can not think of any other potential issues but would love to hear the thoughts of some of the other "seasoned" gear heads.
Cheers,
Lew "The West Coast Sterling Guy" |
fergal_b
New member
Username: fergal_b
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2014 - 06:33 am: |
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Hi mac, I have been following Scolopendra for a few years now and would be very intrested in any info you have on her. Here is a bit of what I have found so far. http://www.powerboat.ie/forums/topic/3913-history-of-powerboat-racing-in-ireland /
Thanks. Fergal. |
mac
Member
Username: mac
Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2013
| | Posted on Monday, June 23, 2014 - 05:48 pm: |
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Hi Fergal
Firstly a big thank you, as I have seen the info that you had collected, and it is part of what got me interested last autumn.
Since then I have found out a lot more and I am still researching. I started out with the idea that I could make myself a photo book, but there is a great deal more I have found, and a great deal more to find out, especially about her years in Canada, and particularly her time patrolling Lake Erie on CGS Petrel and Vigilant as a high speed chase boat for anti poaching and smuggling duties.
So please excuse me if I don't update you properly now, but I will do when I feel I have it together.
I have now put in an application for Re-export from the US as she is built from Spanish Cedar which is CITES ( endangered species)controlled, and hope to ship her back to the UK later this year. |
mac
Member
Username: mac
Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2013
| | Posted on Monday, May 29, 2017 - 04:34 pm: |
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All
Well the boat should get launched this July, so today we tried to fire the B3 up. A flooding Carburetor (now a Stromberg M2) and a very week spark from the Mag, so it didn't happen. Both had been restored but clearly need some more work, or replacements finding.
As time is short and whilst I see if anybody can fit the work in, can anybody recommend another Carb -presumably it would originally have been a Schebler, and a source??
Also what should the oil level be?
Thanks
Graham |
robert
Senior Member
Username: robert
Post Number: 881
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 12:13 am: |
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Reminds me of the stern on the Turbinia. The idea was that the "fan" would discourage the stern from "digging in". IIRC it was found on the Turbinia to do no such thing.
Where's the boat now, on the bottom of a lake? |
ldobbins
Senior Member
Username: ldobbins
Post Number: 234
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2023 - 11:22 pm: |
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Does anyone out there know of ANY Sterling Kid engines that might be available for restoration for a 1917 boat project?
Thanks,
Lew The West Coast Sterling Guy! |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 2712
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2023 - 08:33 am: |
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Possibly
There is a pic in this thread
https://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/2/5548.html
Send me an e-mail for more info
Ernie |
