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Message |
    
wnydreamer
New member
Username: wnydreamer
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2010 - 11:12 pm: | 
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I have purchased the book for the E. W. Roberts Single and am curious if anyone else has attempted to build one? Thought I would investigate what it would take. Not sure if I want to set up my own foundry as it may be easier to simply make of wooden patterns and send them out. |
paulgray
Senior Member
Username: paulgray
Post Number: 79
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2010 - 01:20 pm: |
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wnydreamer- It is a daunting task to make an engine from patterns. I have made pieces/parts for engines over the years from patterns I made and it takes a LOT of ambition and follow through...pattern making is not trivial.. not to mention the machining capabilities. I work with a local foundry to do the casting and that appears to be the easiest part. Not to take the wind out of your sails, but if you have the ambition and skill- have at it. |
andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 1087
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2010 - 07:06 pm: |
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We have sold a lot of the Roberts How to Build a 3HP Launch Engine books but I have never heard of anyone building one in "modern times". I used to include a note with every book saying: "if you decide to build an engine please let me know...", but I never heard back from anyone saying they did it, or even started.
If anyone has done it please let us know.
Thanks. |
alphawolf45
New member
Username: alphawolf45
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2010 - 03:01 pm: |
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I may buy the book and build the engine..I am a machinist with all the right machines and skills..I dont do cast iron as yet however..I cast bronze and aluminum with some regularity..Wouldnt take me long to build a furnace capable of doing some small engine sized iron castings...I am researching the subject now but current projects are keeping me busy till at least next July .. |
aonemarine
New member
Username: aonemarine
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 07:43 pm: |
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I purchased the book a coupe of years ago and am now revisiting the idea. Im surprised no one has built this engine, then again maybe i think of things differently than most. The one question in my mind is why could you not cast this engine in aluminum and just sleeve it? Well any way, im new to the forum and just wanted to say hello. Hopefully this site will give me some ambition and get me back into a hobby I loved 10 years ago and miss. |
alphawolf45
Member
Username: alphawolf45
Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 08:19 pm: |
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I think it will work fine to put an iron liner in this engine's aluminum cylinder casting..I glued some wood together this morning to start to make the patterns to cast the cylinder of that engine in aluminum |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 392
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:01 pm: |
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Please take picture of the process if you can. |
solarrog
Senior Member
Username: solarrog
Post Number: 467
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 12:00 am: |
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I have had this done for me before, The shop pinned the sleeve to the block so it would not move just to be safe.
Roger |
aonemarine
New member
Username: aonemarine
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 02:39 am: |
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I have sleeved many an outboard, never had to pin one. However I have seen the sleves rotate on the OMC loopers if they are overheated but i feel this was a manufacturing defect from too lose of a press fit. |
aonemarine
New member
Username: aonemarine
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 02:44 pm: |
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Alphawolf45, how serious are you about building this engine? are you building it full sized?
Im thinking of teaming up for the building, would help keep me on track and lessen time building patterns and core boxes if we each pick parts and swap out patters between each other. |
alphawolf45
Member
Username: alphawolf45
Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2011 - 09:48 am: |
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aonemarine . I am serious enough that I have begun the project..Definately fullsized build.I welcome an exchange of posts on this forum but no interest in continuing the association offline..I am keenly interested in building every piece of this engine myself- would ruin it for me if I had somebody else make any part or any of the patterns...I expect you are that same way if you consider it for a moment.. |
aonemarine
Member
Username: aonemarine
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2011 - 11:14 am: |
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Yes I must admit I do like doing everything myself, but on a project like this a "Team" build seems more likey to finish the project in a timely fashon. It is probably just as well you want to go it alone as I am leaning more twards a half scale model of this engine that would suit my 10' f/g wherry.
The only thing that looks tricky is the core for the water jacket, thats probably because I have not attempted anything like that as of yet. How are you planning on tackling it???
Anyway I look forward to seeing your posts (hopefully with photos) as you undertake this project and wish you smooth sailing. |
alphawolf45
Member
Username: alphawolf45
Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2011 - 02:18 pm: |
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aonemarine
I will take pictures and show what works after I get a good casting. I have it all planned out but I dont yet know whats gonna work. 
Toughest part of any project is to keep interest long enough to finish..I am retired, evenso I wont work straight thru on this .Will alternate between this and the 5 Winchester model 1873 rifles I am building....but likely see my cylinder casting in about a month.I will try to finish the engine within the year although it wouldnt hurt anything if it went into a second year. |
jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 571
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2011 - 07:02 pm: |
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It looks like this engine has a removable head, I wouldn't worry about a water jacket. Cast the cylinder with one core, bore and install the cast iron sleeve as a wet sleeve. Cores, especially thin shell cores can cause a lot of woes, it's hard for the gasses to escape and you get a lot of blowouts. |
rholcomb
Senior Member
Username: rholcomb
Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2011 - 07:07 pm: |
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i built a similar furnace using waste oil on cast iron it works..... he has a ton of usefull information
http://www.artfulbodgermetalcasting.com/3.html |
alphawolf45
Member
Username: alphawolf45
Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2011 - 10:14 pm: |
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jb castognos I am reading every post on the forum from the beginning. Lot of you in here..I particularly enjoyed your thread on sleeving cylinders.http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/5/3051.html#POST5979
You are really sharp at this stuff.
Hang around I may eventually have a question for you.. |
aonemarine
Member
Username: aonemarine
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2011 - 11:27 am: |
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Wet sleeve?? Yea that would make things alot easier, I cant beleave i didnt see that one. Oh well typical me all ways looking for the hard way to do things lol.
I have a small foundry so im good there, Im still just trying to decide If i should build this particular engine. I gave the plans a good going over and think there is an error on pg 28 depicting the water pump body. it shows the plunger as 7/8" dia, and the pump bore 3/4".
Are there any other plans for a antique 4 stroke out there that anyone knows about? |
wnydreamer
New member
Username: wnydreamer
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2011 - 11:53 am: |
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I see my question has generated alot of interest! I'm still looking at my options and if I proceed, my attempt will be scaled down as the advertised weight is around 450 lbs. Will look into Ford 9N (2N & 8N) piston and sleeve as basis. Aluminum piston would allow the flywheel to be smaller as well. I'm also fond of the Palmer YT-1 and may look at that for some details and/or inspiration. Maybe we will see a renaissance of low speed, single cylinder engines being built! |
andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 1111
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2011 - 12:47 pm: |
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Posting for Spence:
quote:I attempted without success to post the following message in "Old Marine Engine: One and Two Cylinder Gas Inboards: Has anyone attempted building an E. W. Roberts Single ?"
Spence Kerrigan
I have wet sleeved a four cylinder MG automobile engine and a one cylinder Palmer BH25. I had the cylinder(s) bored from the top only as deep as the sleeve's length. That leaves a step in the cylinder wall to keep the sleeve from moving downward.The cylinder head and/or gasket will hold the sleeve down. I used a Permatex product to lubricate the sleeve prior to pressing it into the cylinder. Its called "Bearing Mount for Close Fits" Part number 60940. Limit the interference, heat the cylinder no more than 300 degrees F and freeze the sleeve then the sleeve may require only a light press Too tight a press can crack the cylinder.
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alphawolf45
Member
Username: alphawolf45
Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2011 - 12:58 pm: |
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It would be interesting to know the reasons why a guy wants to build one of these.
My story...My interest is that I want to build a gas engine and run it hard and long enough doing actual work so that I can see if I actually built a real engine or is it just a purty little toy...
.There are lot of plans for scale model gas engines but real shortage of plans for full sized working engines......I would much rather have an original complete working antique inboard engine to replicate than to build this one ... I would rather copy a real engine than to build one that was drawnup for construction by the readers of a book.......But I dont own my own antique inboard engine.. I thought about it and decided not to buy one but to just build this one in the book.
I am retired ,have 30 years experience machineshop and various tool work..I have 60 by 60 foot hobby machineshop with multiple lathes and mills ( 2 cnc mills and 2 full sized manual milling machines) and surface grinder and bandsaws and heat treat furnace and Rockwell Hardness tester,100 ton press,mig,tig,arc and oxy-acetylene welders, forklifts, small foundry..Big air compressor....I have never built a gas engine, I am ready to try..Assuming I get her built I'll put it in a boat and run it till it breaks...I dont anticipate any problems that would stop me but ##it happens....Working with aluminum castings makes it easy in that I can fix a bad spot in a casting by TIG or MIG welding in some additional metal if need be..
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My hobby ,I build replicas of antique guns and I restore antique radios and test equipment. I am big into antiques hence my newly acquired interest now in the antique inboard engine...I been playing with some old outboard engines but I think the inboards are just much purtier engines. I certainly admire lots of the engines owned by the guys here.......Thats all there is to know about me and what motivates me to build an engine rather than just buy a nice one.... |
aonemarine
Member
Username: aonemarine
Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2011 - 02:13 pm: |
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Well, I have had a love of boats and boating since I was 16 and given my first boat, an old wooden skiff i had to go swimming after. patched it up with some aluminum signs bolts and roofing tar. It held together for a couple of years and the rot took over to where it was no longer safe on the water, so I bought my first fiberglass boat a 1973 16'chrysler ski boat with a 70 hp johnson. The engine blew the same year and I went around getting estimates of having it rebuilt, I was awe struck at the prices so I decided to tackle it myself as I was an auto mechanic working in a chrysler dealer. The rebuild went fine, no problems and a friend of mine blew his 200 hp johnson and asked me to see what I could do with it.... Before i knew it I had my own business, A one marine repair repairing all types of boats and outboards and in all aspects. I then got into drag racing outboards and the old chrysler was fitted with a 235 johnsonn that I worked the crap out of, finger ported, scalloped pistons, 17:1 therotical compression 6 2bbl carbs. On accel this boat would stand on the prop bounce twice and be at 75 mph, Yee HA!! well it didnt last, a steering failure at 75 mph led to me and the boat winding up 20' inland. I cooled my jets a bit after that and started looking more into classics but never aquired one as was too busy running my business, I sold my business after 10 years but kept all my tools and equipment which has mostly sat for the past 10 years except for the odd job or two and I am now looking at getting back to my roots of boating as a hobby. I have a 10' wherry that i took a mold off of and will be laying up a new f/g hull this summer and need a small classic inboard to power it. So there I am, and I still have the old chrysler ski boat, less outboard, and will one day put a small out board back on it just to cruise around. |
gregoryan
Senior Member
Username: gregoryan
Post Number: 74
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2011 - 05:35 pm: |
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Regarding the wet sleeve; just pointing-out that the plan in-question has a ports thru the side of the cylinder wall; A relief valve/cock, and the port to the valve chamber. Of course things can be altered to suite a sleeve, but then one is getting closer to their own design.
Now aside from that topic; I, personally, if building a 'old fashioned' engine' would use some modern advantages without spoiling it; neoprene oil- seals, an existing alloy piston , modern high-tension ignition well hidden in the rear of flywheel,,, So long as the main characteristics are old-school; therefore long stroke, slow revving, 1:1 drive to a big prop, and looks like a minimalistic sculpture.! It would sound authentic, and feel right = surging through the water with a minimum of apparent effort.
The best of luck to all that want to build their own! Quite exciting! |
aonemarine
Member
Username: aonemarine
Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2011 - 11:53 pm: |
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Ok, I have decided on what engine I want to build, its the palmer yt1. does any one have any detail drawings on this engine? Man I bet the cam gear is a real bugger to make....... |
