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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 215
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 09:06 pm: | 
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Okay here it is! What is it? Caille, T&M, Detroit, Etc..? It's missing the drip oilers, greasers, muffler and no name tag. However the cap for the timer has Caille name cast into it but it just sets on top and nothing is really holding the cap on. So I'm not sure if this is the original cap or if something is missing that holds it on like a clip.
 
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 218
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:31 pm: |
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 219
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:50 pm: |
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 220
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:54 pm: |
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 221
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 08:17 pm: |
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I think the picture or sketch that looks the closest to the engine in the photos is the one in the BYB volume two, page 54. The only thing different is the timer mechanism and the engine mounts. I believe it is a Caille. Anyone else have any comments? |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2309
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 10:25 pm: |
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Several Yrs ago when we trying to figure these Wadsworth Conglomerate engines out "Ernie" had a long name that included a little bit of each name
sort of an umbella name to cover these engs, This seems to be one of those engs ??
The 3 large hole flywheel was a Sandow Trait and also sometimes Caille, the head less cylinders with the exhaust and water inlet is Caille, the 2 bolt waterpump with pulse dome is Termaat Monahan,the brass water outlet pipe and fittings were like Termaats but I have never seen one that curved down like the blue eng ?? the crankcase is a puzzle the blue twin above photos has what looks to be a Termaat turned backwards with inspection plates on one side solid casting opposite side ? The intake valves and V shaped manifold is Caille.
I,m sure its original and is a neat engine, they are rare and scarce info and photo ads !
Anyone have a Caille catalog about 1910-12 or so ??
Nothing written in stone here just my opinion !
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 222
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 07:57 pm: |
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Well I went and got the Caille twin today so it is mine. It has "The Caille Perfection Motor Co. Detroit" cast or die stamped into the timer lid. So I guess I will call it a Caille for now until someone can prove other wise. |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 223
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 08:23 pm: |
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Caille Timer Cap from my twin.
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 224
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 08:52 pm: |
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Here is the picture or sketch from C.H.Wendel's BYB volume 2. However the Caille twin I just got is a larger engine like 12 or 14hp.
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Nick Groff
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 01:21 am: |
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could someone help me? i am looking for any information on the Pierce inverted vee twin marine motor,manufactured by the racine machinery co Racine Wis. Thank you Nick |
keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 273
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 09:22 pm: |
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Here is an example. Don't think there is much info out there.
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bruce
Senior Member
Username: bruce
Post Number: 214
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 09:31 pm: |
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WOW!! |
Nick Groff
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 11:53 am: |
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thanks Keith, nice shot. In 43 years as a collector, this is only the 2nd example of this engine I"ve seen! Does it run? If so would it be possible to see a video of it? are you located on the west coast? Thanks again. |
keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 274
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 04:47 pm: |
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Hi Nick,
No I haven't tried to run it. There doesn't appear to be any reason that it wouldn't run. It uses a piston trip setup for ignition. I have been hoping to find information on the original mixer/carb system. Do you have any information? Bob Price gave me a copy of a magazine article on the builder, Andrew Jackson Pierce. The 1899 "American Machinist" had an article on the engine. None of the articles have a clear description or picture of the fuel system. |
bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 140
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 07:43 pm: |
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That's a great piece, Keith. Thanks for sharing.
Do you have any idea in what series would it fire? Would it be an even 1-2-1-2? I look forward to hearing it running. |
Nick Groff
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 10:43 pm: |
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The other engine I saw was actually running! In fact I helped get it running. But that was 40 years gone by. A few years later the owner put it on display, at the Toledo threshing show in Toledo Washington. About 5 years went by, and someone from Idaho bought it. It seems as if it was Hit&miss governed; or wasn"t timed right. It would fire 3 or 4 times then coast abit then fire 3 or 4---- etc. I am going to try tracing it down and will update later. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2312
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 01:14 am: |
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Johnny
PERFECTION MARINE ENGINE
Here's your twin engine April 1909 ad.
The large sign on the manifold I believe is for the ad and not a part of the engine ??
** |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 228
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 06:41 am: |
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Richard, Thank you so much for taking the time to look for information on my engine. I was hoping to find something that would prove it was a Caille or one of the Detroit engines. What a surprise to discover that the engine was manufactured much early then first thought. Thanks again! |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 229
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 05:43 pm: |
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Nick, That is a very nice engine! wished it was in my collection. Is it my imagination or is the connecting rod bent on your pierce engine? Maybe it is one of those optical ellussions? |
keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 276
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 09:23 pm: |
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johnny,
It's not an illusion. The cylinders are inline and the connecting rods are offset at the crank throw.
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 230
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 06:10 am: |
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Woops! I guess I got you two mixed up, Sorry. I do not think I have ever seen a engine that had a offset in the con rods. Interesting that has to be one hell of a strong con rod other wise you would think it would bend or break. Is this engine a four cycle or two cycle? I only see a one valve for each cylinder. are two more valves on the other side? Those must be the exhaust valves we can see? |
keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 277
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 09:05 am: |
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You are correct johnny. It is a 4 cycle and the intake is on the other side.
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scott_n
Senior Member
Username: scott_n
Post Number: 140
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 10:50 am: |
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Keith very cool engine!
Johnny when I was going to start my big caille JB told me to go out back cut down a big oak tree and bolt it to the stump. Nice find Have fun Scott |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 231
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 10:57 am: |
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Should sound and run a lot like a Harley Davidson motorcycle. The threaded hole in each valve cage is a exhaust outlet? Does it use low tension coil and ignitors for ignition? Also does not appear to have a governor system. Must be straight throttle control? |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 232
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 11:06 am: |
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Scott, what size Caille do you have? Does the piston have a counter balance? I have a little early model 2hp Detroit that has no counter balance for the piston and just like J.B. says if you do not have it bolted to something solid you better not come up off a slow idle because it will jump all around. The twin Caille in the above photos is counter balanced however I'm sure it will still jump around some. |
scott_n
Senior Member
Username: scott_n
Post Number: 142
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 04:35 pm: |
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12hp look at my winter projet in the caille collom and their is a you tube clip look for scott and his big caille and yes the crank has bolt on balancers on it |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 234
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 06:11 pm: |
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Scott I seen the photos and video of your single cylinder Caille. Great Job and it runs great! I thought maybe you had a twin Caille also. That twin Atlantic is also nice. |
scott_n
Senior Member
Username: scott_n
Post Number: 143
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 04:45 pm: |
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the Atlantic is Mystic seaport's and it dose bounce arond a bit |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 312
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 09:13 pm: |
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here is my T and M for comparison.
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Nick G
Visitor
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 09:16 pm: |
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Here's another question for you Keith: Since the Pierce is a marine engine, how low into the bilges would it be mounted in order to line up with the prop? Or would you end up with a 40 ft prop shaft in a 20ft boat. Think about it. |
keith
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 278
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 08:56 am: |
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Nick,
They used a sprocket and chain drive between the engine and prop shaft. I will look for my reprint from the 1899 American Machinist, which shows this. |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 239
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 02:01 pm: |
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Nice looking engine Bill, Just needs to be cleaned up a little. Did it have a T&M brass name tag and/or does it have T&M on the inspection covers? |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 313
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 05:20 pm: |
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inspection covers
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Nick G
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 09:03 pm: |
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Thanks for setting me straight Keith, that makes sense. I found another Pierce, but it"s a3/4 H.P.single. Looks like a runner! You might be able to get some info regarding the fuel system.Go toAntique marine engine, Then enter SmokStak click on photo gallery, and scroll down about 1/2 way to; Ray Webbs old stuff. Good luck! |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 240
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 06:21 am: |
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Keith & Nick, here is the link to the single cylinder Pierce. Looks to be stationary?
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35704&highlight=pierce |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 241
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 06:39 am: |
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Keith, Have you talk with Daniel Dorece on Harry's smokStak? I believe he had a two cylinder inverted Pierce engine but I have never seen photos of it. |
