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Message |
    
Doug Kimball
Senior Member
Username: doug11k
Post Number: 58
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 12:46 pm: | 
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A friend recently picked up this small single and we are looking to identify it. 10" diameter flywheel, 2-bolt flanged intake & exhaust openings, 4-bolt removable head. The carb is a Schebler I'm not familiar with. Two guesses so far are Essex & Knox. The Essexes I've seen have had 4-bolt flanges. Engine castings don't look heavy enough to be a Knox. Engine acquired at Dublin, NH show.
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Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 256
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 02:29 pm: |
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I have a pretty good handle on Knoxs back to 1903. I can't tell you much about 1900 to 1903 yet. However, except for the 4 studs holding the head on, there is very little in common between this engine and any Knox I am aware of. The Schebler carburetor seems to be off a motorcycle of the period. |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1809
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 03:32 pm: |
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This small Motor looks like the Fairfield Motor Companies Bull Pup!
The shape of the crankcase etc-- the 2 bolt exhaust flange does not match-- in late 1908 or early 09 the mfgring of these engines was taken over by the Consolidated C&S Co. but I have not seen a photo of the bull pup, they continued making the Fairfield and Park city Auto Marine engines but they had a different base design ??
1906
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Doug Kimball
Senior Member
Username: doug11k
Post Number: 59
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 08:32 pm: |
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Richard,
It does looks pretty close. I contacted the owner & he will check bore & stroke. |
Scott R Barrow
New member
Username: roddy_mcmain
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 10:00 pm: |
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If you view page one of the photos from Mystic in 2002, the black engine in the second photo is my old Fairfield Bullpup that I got from Ernie.
it had a Lunk. mixer on it.
Scott Barrow |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1810
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 11:19 pm: |
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*Can't find that thread--- whats the link to those photos ? |
Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 260
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 12:09 am: |
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The photo is poor because it is a screen capture from a 1926 Schebler motorcycle repair manual presently for sale on eBay (eBay number is 350098676129). The carburetor in the upper left of the photo is quite similar to the one on this unknown.
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1811
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 12:39 am: |
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I thought for a long time that these Model H carbs were strictly motorcycle carbs but I have seen a few Marine eng catalogs that offered the H as an upgrade- some racing engs used them exclusively ! They were expensive compared to others !
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Doug Kimball
Senior Member
Username: doug11k
Post Number: 60
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 09:36 am: |
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http://www.oldmarineengine.com/shows/mystic_2002/
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1812
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 09:53 am: |
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would like to see better photos of this engine, it may be a small Fairfield and not a Bull PuP ?
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Doug Kimball
Senior Member
Username: doug11k
Post Number: 61
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 05:57 pm: |
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Ernie must be travelling. Here is another photo from his website before Scott got it. Ernie had following caption: ?? I am told this is a "BULL PUP" made by the Fairfield Motor Co. Fairfield or Bridgeport CT
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1813
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 06:49 pm: |
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The White engine above isn't a Bull Pup !
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 869
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 08:30 am: |
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Correct not like the ad. However I finally did see some documentation on it and it is a version of Bull Pup from Farifield. I think Norm Mullins owns it now.
And yes I am travelling again..... |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1814
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 11:42 am: |
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Faifield one of the very old marine engine makers, ad below says established 1896.So far it looks like they mfgd 3 different marine engines all with some similar design-- Bull Pup---- Fairfield-----Park city Auto Marine engines.In 1909 The Consolidated Carpet and Sewing Machine Corporation took over the mfgr of these engs and may have made some minor design changes ?
The few Bull pup ads that I have seen all had the rounded crankcase mount flange area, early ones had make and break ignition later ones lever timer front and water/pump rear .
The above white engine is -I believe- an early Fairfield with a different lower crankcase casting design and extended square angled engine mounts, like the engine on right side of the ad above ? I believe that these engines were also used on railroad carts ?
Difficult sorting some of this out reminding myself that these engines were made well over 100 yrs ago ??
1904
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Doug Kimball
Senior Member
Username: doug11k
Post Number: 62
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 06:21 pm: |
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The red engine above has 3" bore & 2- 3/4" stroke, 10" diameter flywheel.. Maybe a 2 hp as listed in 1906 ad Richard posted? |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1815
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 07:05 pm: |
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This ad sticks a wrench in the spokes ! 1909 consolidated ad says Bull Pup and shows the base and mounting design previously exclusive to the Fairfield engs, also now has a make and break ignition and eccentric driven water/pump on output shaft -- this is what Ernie said that there were many different versions of Bull pups !
With these old engs and Companies that made them sometimes the more you learn the less you know !!
1909
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Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher
Post Number: 261
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 10:42 pm: |
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And some of these 'manufacturers' and 'builders' bought castings from whatever foundry was offering the best prices, did the machine work on the rough castings, added off the shelf grease and oil cups, etc., and sent the finished engine out the door with a fine new tag. And, 100 years later, we are left wondering who actually made what. |
miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 346
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 12:07 pm: |
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too bad we don't have DNA for cast iron
It sure would be useful to help figure this out
miro |
