| Author |
Message |
    
ianbruce
New member
Username: ianbruce
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 07:26 am: | 
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I have a Narrowboat with a lister JP3M Diesel engine believed manufactured in the 1930`s. I would like to date the engine. I have looked up the tables listed on oldengine.org - confusing. The factory cannot help.
The Serial No is 113 JP 3MP 9X 35 1200
Can any one help |
oslin04
Member
Username: oslin04
Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 09:38 am: |
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Hi,
You do mean the Lister Petter Factory do you? on 01453 544141 and ask for stores, they are very clued up.
or Marine Engine services on 01895 236246 or Sleaman & Hawkins on 01626 778266.
I feel sure you will get some answers from one of them, they have always been very helpful to me in the past.
Regards Keith. |
ianbruce
New member
Username: ianbruce
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 05:19 pm: |
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Thanks to Keith and Peter (listerman).
I phoned the factory stores and they confirmed that my engine was marineized in 1959.
Where it was between 1959 and installation in my boat in 1987 is anyones guess.
My next question is - the engine has had a complete rebuild and I now need to change the oil before a long trip. I have read the arguements about monogrades and multigrades detergents and sludge, synthetic or mineral.
What oil should I use???? 20W50 mineral deisel with frequent oil changes or hunt down some monograde 20W. I do not know what oil is in it now other than the tank has about 6 galls in it. |
oslin04
Member
Username: oslin04
Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 09:30 am: |
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Hi Ianbruce,
First of all do NOT use any type of synthetic oil either pure or mix,
second,
I am sure lister will say 10/40 diesel lub oil, but I found this very hard to get hold of no one seems to stock it any more, but it would be available to the trade I am sure, so I am using 20/40 diesel lube oil which seems ok and I can get it almost everywhere.
But if in doubt give Lister another ring, it is important to use the correct grade of oil, otherwise excesive wear or damage might occur
Keith. |
listerdiesel
Member
Username: listerdiesel
Post Number: 17
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 04:53 pm: |
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113 JP 3MP 9X 35 1200
113 is the serial number
JP is the engine series
3 is the number of cylinders
MP is Marine Propulsion
9 should be the year of manufacture which is 1959
35 is the HP
1200 is the engine max speed
The X is possibly something relating to the reduction gear.
Peter |
ianbruce
New member
Username: ianbruce
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:16 pm: |
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Thanks Keith and Peter,
I have used 15-40 mineral oil for now and will keep an eye on the oil condition.
Having got up close and personal with this monster - the engine has Lister Blackstone on the crank case access panels.
The X from your engine no chart I thought related to the cooling system and should say T for tank or R for radiator. This one has a closed circuit hull cooling system running along the bilge channel.
The only other problem is that when cold the centre cyclinder compression reduction valve leaks exhaust gasses. Should I worry about this or hope that it resolves itself. The leak stops after the engine has ben running for a while.
Another Q - I have a grubby photocopy of the engine manual - this says that the area around he valves under the rocker covers should be topped up weekly. Do these covers that have the decomprssion valve levers (for manual starting)just lift off or is it more complicated and by Weelkly do they mean a weeks continuous use. |
listerdiesel
Member
Username: listerdiesel
Post Number: 23
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:44 pm: |
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The rockers are only held on by a knurled nut IIRC, there are no linkages to undo.
The early engines had no rocker or valve guide lubrication, so filling that up regularly does help with keeping the wear down.
A lot of users reckon on every 10 hours of running as a good guide, but you will see if the oil has gone when you check it, so adjust to suit your running times.
Peter |
ianbruce
Member
Username: ianbruce
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:53 pm: |
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Thanks Peter, All painted just the pipes to polish
 |
ianbruce
Member
Username: ianbruce
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 04:28 pm: |
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Hi folks
Its a good job I didnt take the long trip I planned - Engine runs fine on tick over clear exhaust and a steady tick over,instant throttle response.
However under load the engine stalls and issues clouds of smoke and black smuts. The drive is 1.1 so when I increase the engine speed to get a steady run the power is awesome. I could tow water skiers and have a wash 3ft high - not allowed on the Grand Union Canal speed limit 4MPH!
I was going upstream (River Soar)into the wind and the boat weighs 15 tons. Could only control her with the clutch slipping - not good.
The cylinder linings have been replaced and new rings installed.
I tried opening the compression reduction valves - no change (slight blue smoke on tick over)
Ideally I need clear exhaust with a v slow tick over when in gear driving at about 4 mph.
Any Ideas folks? (Smaller prop,Timing,Fuel pump)
Total run time since re build -about 7 hrs of which 5hrs under load.
HELP!
Ian |
oslin04
Member
Username: oslin04
Post Number: 14
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 06:11 pm: |
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Hi Ian,
Well not knowing the history of your boat Ian, I can only say will your engine reach the design under load revs? if not you will damage it, regarding the black smoke and smuts it would suggest it is over loaded, the stalling could be bad governor setting or opperation, but first check the revs as stated and if the engine will not attain them then you are using a prop that is to large mayby in both dia and pitch, if this is the case it will upset the governor with the sudden heavy load, it will then open the injector pumps to full to try and cope with the load,causing black smoke and smutts.
On the plus side Ian your engine room looks very nice and looked after, well done.
Keith, Marine Engineer. |
ianbruce
Member
Username: ianbruce
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 01:36 pm: |
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Thanks Keith,
The boat is 20 yrs old and the engine and prop are the origional ones. The engine number is on the mortgage docs passed on with the boat and the prop looks as though it has always been there.I can only assume that it ran ok once. The boat has been used on the River Thames and canals around London judging by the paperwork maps and notes left in the cupboards.
I will have to get a marine engineer to look at it. The engineer who rebuilt the engine set it up with the boat out of the water so I am sure the settings are off.
If all else fails I can put a smaller prop on, my marina state that this should be a simple enough job (a 20yr old prop on a spline I dont think so!)
Cheers
Ian |
oslin04
Member
Username: oslin04
Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 05:22 am: |
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Hi Ian,
A question for you, when the engine was rebuilt was the gearbox rebuilt of exchanged? why I ask is, I would of expected to see a 2 to 1 reduction on the gearbox fitted to your engine not a 1 to 1, not knowing the history I am just putting ideas forward that would cause this problem assuming the engine rebuild is ok,
what size propeller are you running?
Re the propeller it is on a taper and while it will need a puller to remove it, there should not be a problem, but first I think you need to make sure everything else is ok.
let me know Ian, perhaps I might be able to help from this end if I have the details :-)
Regards Keith, Marine Engineer. |
boyd_guard
Member
Username: boyd_guard
Post Number: 14
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 02:58 am: |
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Run twin JP`s for years in NZ. Always used a mobil lube oil, DTE heavy medium. Research will find a present day equiv. Seems as though the prop is too big, 9hp per cyld. is not a lot of grunt. |
ianbruce
Member
Username: ianbruce
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 05:46 pm: |
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Thanks folks
The "gear box" was not rebuilt - as far as I can tell it has 1 forward gear and reverse. The reduction gear box as shown in the manual (2:1)is not fitted and there would be no room to fit one.
Next time I go I will turn her over by hand and count the revolutions of the shaft compared to the fly wheel.
I am going to get the engineer that rebuilt the engine to look at it after Xmas.
On the oil, I have a collegue who restores vintage cars and can source some oil in large 25L drums.
If its not the settings then I will change the prop for a smaller one. I didnt measure it before she went back in the water but its big about 12" with 3 blades.
I dont know if you can tell from the photo but the boat was designed for the engine and the prop looks in proportion ? The boat is 45ft long
Cheers
Ian |
ianbruce
Member
Username: ianbruce
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 05:18 pm: |
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Hi folks, An update on the JPM3 - Mechanic says its fine. The problem is the throttle control its either stalling or racing. The engine will run on load at a nice pop pop pop. The control is via a remote wheel thru wires and pullies - Hit and miss mostly miss ! I`ll have to look at that.
Sat circulating the water around the marina whilst tied up! Seemed to run much happier on low compression. Having read up on it I can`t decide which is the best High or low. The manual states high comp at low revs for long periods. Other sources say that a NB is a light load so High Comp. Suck it and see?
Cheers
Ian |
Richard Gray
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2010 - 05:42 am: |
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Happy New Year Folks!
I've a 1937 narrowboat with a JP3 aboard which is proving most problematic cold starting. Anyone got a useful tip there? My Eighteen stone ex Para friend can't swing her either - Too cold I'm told... |
steveb
New member
Username: steveb
Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2010 - 04:35 pm: |
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Hello Richard.
How long have you had the boat and engine?
The best thing you can do is treat yourself to a starter motor as long as you have done all the usual checks ie. compression, fuel etc.
How long is it since the injectors were checked? How old and what is the quality of the fuel in the tank? And how often do you use the engine?
I have lived on my narrow boat for 10 years so if you would like to to email me I may be able to help. Kind regards Steve ([email protected])} |
