| Author |
Message |
    
Kirk Rouge
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 04:55 pm: | 
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I bought a custom wooden ketch from 1974 which came with what appears to be a palmer P-60 freshwater cooled engine. The trouble is, the boat is a few months from being put in the water, and the poor girl have been on the hard for 4 years, and have no idea if she runs. She's lacking a battery for me to test her out- can anyone recommend a size? Electric starter. The picture is below. It's so close to one already posted, is it the same engine with an impeller in a different place?
Thanks for the help, men!
Mine:
[url=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/][img]http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/52cef0c2e9.jpg[/img][/url]
Previous post:
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 10:25 am:
I am trying to identify a gasoline 4 cylinder Palmer engine in my sailboat. It uses a Prestolite distributor (1AY4010A5E)and Motorola alternator. The engine is green and has a Boatswains orange support bracket (707005).
The head is numbered 351779 and the manifold is numbered 7002. Pictures can be viewed at:
http://www.cool-ink.com/Boat/Engine1.jpg
http://www.cool-ink.com/Boat/Engine2.jpg
Thanks in advance.
Steve |
Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 548
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 07:41 pm: |
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Steve what do you mean a different impeller?
For a battery just get a typical 12 volt automotive battery. Nothing super large or fancy. |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 135
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 08:13 pm: |
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Kirk,
Maybe you already know this and then again maybe you don't. If the engine has been setting four years then you should turn the engine over by hand or with a wrench real slow and easy before you try to start it with a battery. This is to make sure the valves and/or pistons are not stuck. It's a flathead so you don't have to worry about the valves hitting the pistons but you could still bend or break some valve stems if they are stuck. Take spark plugs out and squirt oil in each cylinder. Then try to turn it over slow by hand. I like to do this with the head removed. |
Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie
Post Number: 206
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 08:30 pm: |
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Looks like someone jury rigged a raw water pump driven off of the center of the flywheel. Circulating water pump is is gear driven and at upper aft port side directly behind the alternator. |
Kirk Rouge
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 09:39 am: |
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Thanks very much, gentlemen, your suggestions will be so very helpful. I'll post again when I've done this and let you know of any questions. Any guesses as to what the extra impeller is for? The hose was unattached, and I haven't figured out where it should be drawing from.
Thanks again. |
Andrew Menkart
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 906
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 01:46 pm: |
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Kirk,
We sell a manual for the P-60 / M-60 engine on the marineengine.com site, see this link. |
Kirk Rouge
New member
Username: rouge
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 02:02 pm: |
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Thanks, that might be REALLY worth it. |
Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 549
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 09:18 pm: |
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Does or Did this engine have a heat exchanger so you don't circulate sea water in the engine block. If so it would have had a block circulating pump aft of the distributor/alternator drive mounting. Palmer supplied a sea water pump V belt drive pulley which mounted to the flywheel flange. Heat exchangers were used both in fresh and salt water. In fresh water applications one ran a 50:50 fresh water automotive anti freeze mix in the block circuit and drained only the heat exchanger salt or fresh sea water circuit in the winter. |
Kirk Rouge
New member
Username: rouge
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 08:41 am: |
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Yes, it does have another impeller aft of the alt/distributor that seems to do just that, as well as a heat exchanger. But you're saying that since it has the v belt pump on the front (connected to the flywheel) it must be pumping salt water through the forward impeller? There is a through-hull valve that wasn't connected to anything- with a sea strainer on it, and the hose for the forward impeller does reach that... can it be using both fresh AND salt water?
Thanks again Richard,
Kirk |
Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 550
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 10:06 pm: |
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My point is many thoughtful boat owners would put in heat exchangers whether the boat was in the fresh water of the Great Lakes or the salt water of the Chesapeake Bay. This practice keeps marine junk from getting into the cooling passages of the engine block. They would use the 50:50 anti freeze to protect from freezing and also to permit say a 160F thermostat rather than the 143F thermostat required for salt water cooling of the engine block. The hose you speak of I expect goes to the sea cock as it connects to the heat exchanger if I understand your message. The sea water pump puts the water into the seawater side of the heat exchanger and the output of the heat exchanger on the sea water side goes to just aft of the exhaust manifold shooting the water down the exhaust line to cool the exhaust line. The heat exhanger is like a radiator on a car. The difference is water cools much better than air and so there are tubes inside the heat exchanger that are isolated from the sea water side. These tubes carry the circulating water for the engine block The Pump on the aft end of the distributor simply pumps the coolant through the block and out the pipe on the top aft end of the head to the heat exchanger. Pump on the aft end gets its water from the cooled side of the heat exchanger and none of the water in this loop ever gets exposed to sea water. I hope this explains what you probably have which is very good. |
Kirk Rouge
New member
Username: rouge
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 04:50 pm: |
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She turns over indeed, both in and out of gear (by hand). It felt smooth, so I imagine the pistons are moving smoothly. I would have removed the head to witness this, but when I pulled a couple of bolts and had water come up, I stopped pulling bolts. The spark plugs look dry, but since she hasn't run in a while, I imagine that they COULD have been wet before. This water shouldn't scare me, right? those bolts are going through to the coolant, right?
I'm surprised that water is coming up at all considering how cold it is, and how clear the water looks (like there's no anti-freeze).
I took more pictures because I'm also confused that the sea-water impeller leads to the coolant reservoir where the freshwater should go... and I can't seem to locate the heat exchanger core either. I've got the manual ordered, as I'm clearly going to need it, but I imagine you guys might be able to explain it even better.
Thanks
pix:[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4791/img0738tb3.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
The hose above the saltwater hose goes to another impeller on the aft port side and aparently into the engine block, and the hose on the opposite side goes up to the exhaust. Is the Heat exchanger inside the coolant reservoir? |
Kirk Rouge
Member
Username: rouge
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 09:56 am: |
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Also, I can't find any sort of dipstick or logical location of where I might empty the water from the block. |
Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 552
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 05:38 pm: |
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Kirk, The heat exchanger is a small tank typicaly with a radiator cap or other removable cap on the top with a breather hole it. This is the anti freeze/fresh water side of the heat exchanger. This is where you fill the heat exchanger so called fresh water side. It has an input and output pipe. Input is from the hot discharge side of the engine water jacketed parts. Cooled water output goes back to the circulating pump aft of the distributor. Think of it as a water tight tank with a bunch of tubes or coils inside it. The sea water is pumped around the coils/tubes inside the tank and then out the exhaust pipe to cool the exhaust line. The Coil/tubes are water tight and the pump aft of the distributor pumps the cooled fresh water if no anti freeze/water mix is used through the hose to the water jacket of the engine on the lower port side. Disconect this hose to drain the water jacket. The water travels through through the block and cylinder head exiting at the flanged fitting with the hose back to the heat exchanger via the exhaust manifold cooling water jacket. Some engines have a thermostat in this loop on top of the exhaust manifold to permit the engine temp to be controled at about 160F When salt water cooling the the engine block temp should never go over 143 as the salt in the water would percipitate out and fill the block cooling water passages with salt. You don't worry about that as your set up never puts salt water into the block it does put it into the sea water side of the heat exchanger but there it never gets to such a high temp as it is flowing rapidly through and out the exhaust pipe. The block water temp sensor is also in the top of th flange fitting on the aft end of the cylinder head. The little hose or tube on top of the cylinder head just aft of the flywheel is an air/steam bleed line to keep any air or steam trapped in the top of the head from building up and forcing the coolant down the sides of the cylinders causing them to become read hot and in danger of cracking if suddenly hit with cold coolant. Is should be checked each season at least once and any time you begin to see unexplainable sudden enging temp rises. With a heat exchanger there is no chance for maringe trash picked up in the seawater from getting into the block as the sea water simply passes out the exhaust pipe.
The vent for the PCV system is built into the top of the oil dip stick, That round bulb about the size of tennis ball. Just pull it off. It should be cleaned once a season as the filter material inside the ball picks up dust and begins to block off the PCV system. You will find a plastic tube behind the carburetor which connects to the valve cover plate fitting and the other end connects to to the back fire trap on the carburetor. Air flowing into the carburetor lowers the air pressure in the crankcase and in turn picks up the crankcase fumes and the are flushed out the exhaust pipe. Most important in a closed cabin boat or engine roomp to keep fume from building up. Clean the back fire trap at least once a year. I dip it in clean gasoline and swish it around and then blow it out with compressed air but I do it away from the boat and the dock area. The reverse gear oil is not connected to the engine crankcase oil. Check it once a year at least. SAE 30 weight non detergent oil. Should be about one inch below the drive shaft at the aft end of the reverse gear. Take the six cap screws off the cover and you can look in to see oil level. Don't put in too much Not a critical level amount just estimate about an inch if ok just put the cover back on and tighten the caps screws. Regards, Dick
Hope this helps. |
Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie
Post Number: 207
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 05:39 pm: |
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Dipstick is attached to a crankcase breather canister on the starboard side just outbd of the exaust manifold. The dipstick tube is also a vent to the crankcase and is a large diameter making it convenient to pump out old oil for an oil change and add new oil.
The low point for draining coolant out of the engine is the hose fitting on the port side of the engine low on the crankcase between the oil fiter housing and the alternator. |
Curt Larsen
Member
Username: curtlarsen
Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 10:15 am: |
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Kirk: Sadly I'm giving up my recently rebuilt M60 (150 hours on rebuild). The tail piece came loose on my transmission for the second time and messed up my transmission. I was on my way south on the ICW to Florida. I'm now repowering in Wilmington, NC. My M60 will be available FOB Wilmington for the best offer. I have a recently rebuilt Sherwood E20 water pump I carry as a spare that is available as well. The engine currently has steel head gasket installed but I have two copper gaskets from gaskets to go available. I was going to install one when I got to Florida but now I'm in NC with a recovering broken ankle which I acquired here. This is sort of a sad day for me because I've loved this old engine. If you have a good tranny to bolt on to this it would be a good deal. I also have two Palmer manuels for this engine. The engine was originally installed on a Allied Luders 33 (hull #66) which I have restored. I also have a Marine Manifold copper exhaust for this engine and boat as well that was custom made for me a couple of years ago so if you have a Luders 33 and still want to run an M60 in it this fits perfectly. While I'm thinking about it I have two Facet fuel pumps. |
Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 553
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 08:21 pm: |
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Kirk sorry about your troubles. I am curious how the "Tail Piece" came loose from the reverse gear. If you are talking about the forward half of the flange coupling I can understand what probably happened. The hex nut holding the flange to the revese gear shaft came loose because the tab on the lock ring was not bent over to hold the nut from turning then going in reverse with the nut loose to turn eventually going in reverse the prop would pull the flange out of the reverse gear. Is that what happened?
By the way if the exhaust manifold is good it is easily worth to someone who needs on at least 500.00. No I don't need one. The rest of the engine is what you can get for it in my opinion. The heat exchanger and sea water pump and drive are worth something. Doubt anyone is likely to pay much for the rest. Just my opinion and you know what free advice is worth. |
