| Author |
Message |
    
David Burr
New member
Username: bathurst
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 07:57 pm: | 
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I'm a bit new to the mechanics of my engine but here's the story so far:
I have a three and a half horsepower Blaxland installed in a 14'6' clinker. I'm not sure of the model of this engine but it's the type with the flywheel facing the stern and is fitted with a Model "D" carburettor. The engine was professionally reconditioned in about 2001 and has had very little use since then but when it has been used it has performed flawlessly.
The boat sits on a trailer and due to my work committments hasn't had an outing for the last couple of years although the engine has been run periodically (on the trailer and for a few seconds only). In between runnings of the engine I have tried to keep water in the jacket although I'm not too sure how successful I've been at doing this. Up until yesterday the last time the engine was run was about eight months ago.
Yesterday I noticed a little corrosion on some of the bronze of the water pump and took it off to clean. After it was cleaned I bolted it back to the cylinder and fired up the engine on the third pull of the strap - once again for a few seconds only as there was no water in the pump.
I then - and this could have been a mistake - primed the pump and attached the garden hose to the water inlet as the engine, being in the boat on its trailer, had no source of water. I wasn't then able to start the engine and to date (the next day) still haven't been able to do so. After removing the spark plug I noticed and oily sludge on it and believe this to be an oil and water mixture.
Given that I now have water in the sump (I presume I do) I have a few questions:
By what route did the water take to get into the sump, what is the best way to get it out and replenish the oil supply and have I done any damage to my engine.
Waiting in anticipation,
Bathurst. |
David Burr
New member
Username: bathurst
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 10:06 pm: |
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On reflection I guess I don't necessarily have water in the sump but water in the cylinder. I'd be pleased to hear any thoughts on the matter.
Regards,
Bathurst |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 11:14 pm: |
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David
You have water in your sump because it was forced throught the intake port by the hose pressure. When you run the engine out of the water you should allow the engine to draw water up out of a bucket under its own ability as a 2 cycle engine port has no valves and is either serving the exhaust ( the sump ) or the combustion chamber.
To get the engine going you will need to drain the sump. This can be done by removing the drain plug beneath the sump pan. You will more than likely have to feel for it and use your best indian rubber man impression to undo it.
Finally you need to recharge the sump with some oil. I have emailed the manual to you that includes the instructions. Best of luck. |
David Burr
New member
Username: bathurst
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 12:34 am: |
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Hi John,
Thank you for the manual - very much appreciated. And thank you for the advice re the water in the sump - I had an idea that the garden hose was the culprit and figured I'd have to drain the sump but wasn't too sure how to go about charging it again.
I believe my Model "D" carburettor is in fact a Schebler Model "D" as described in the Blaxland Chapman manual and I recharge the sump by passing a stream of oil in front of the carby's air intake with the engine running - sounds messy but I certainly can't see any way of refilling through the sump drain - not with the engine upright anyway. I'll give it a go.
Also, I have previously noticed a small crack in the exhaust manifold where exhaust gasses were escaping. This crack became more obvious during the garden hose episode when water issued forth from the crack. I've been trolling through Old Marine Engine discussions today (wow...what a resource) and reading about a product called Epigen 2008 which is used for filling cracks in all manner of water jackets. Do you think this product would be suitable for filling the crack in my manifold or should I track down a replacement?
Once again thank you for your help - hopefully I'll have my engine running by tomorrow.
Best regards,
David |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 10:10 pm: |
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David
I would get a boiler maker or fitter and turner to weld it as the product mentioned and similar are not the best. Have you got a few pics of the boat? Try posting so I can have a geek!
Regards |
Peter Ogborne
Senior Member
Username: peterogborne
Post Number: 187
Registered: 09-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 05:02 pm: |
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Epigen ,Devcon and the like are OK for water jackets and in some cases the combustion space within the cylinder . No good for exhaust manidolds . There is a product called J WELD made in the US . The users swear by it ,I believe that it can be bought in Australia but where I no not . |
Rod Gillespie
Member
Username: dougall
Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 09:09 pm: |
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There is a product called j-b weld available on Ebay. About $30 for a small 2 tube pack. Could be what you are looking for but I have not used it. Hope this helps, Rod. |
David Burr
Member
Username: bathurst
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 01:04 am: |
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Thank you Peter and Rod,
I've tracked down some J-B Weld at my local run of the mill auto shop - $18 for a couple of small tubes. And John, as there is such a small crack in the manifold I'm going to give J-B Weld a go and if it's not successful I'll go down the welding or replacement route. I'm going to have a go at attaching a few snaps of my little boat for your perousal. |
David Burr
Member
Username: bathurst
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 01:05 am: |
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can't work out how to post multiple images so here's another. |
David Burr
Member
Username: bathurst
Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 01:09 am: |
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and another - one more after this. |
David Burr
Member
Username: bathurst
Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 01:12 am: |
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last one - the donk. If anyone has any theories on the model and time of manufacture of this engine I'd like to hear them.
David |
David Myers
Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 08:21 am: |
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Hi David,
The engine is a 3.5 HP model SX Reverse Flywheel. (The SXT is the Forward Flywheel) Made from about 1936 thru till mid 60's.
Boat looks very nice indeed.
Another way to get oil in the sump is to remove the carby and pour (or inject) oil into the inlet port which will drain into the sump. Saves trying to mist it into the carby.
Cheers,
Dave |
David Burr
Member
Username: bathurst
Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 04:23 pm: |
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Hi David,
Thanks for the info about the engine - I wasn't exactly sure of its details. And thanks for the tip re getting the oil into the sump however I've had the engine running and I did use the "misting" method which wasn't as messy as I thought it would be - sure was smoky though - I was expecting the fire brigade to arrive and I did get some strange looks from passers by.
David |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 09:36 pm: |
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David
Boat looks fine. I also like the look of the donk! Its a lot newer than mine which is the earlier model. |
David Burr
Member
Username: bathurst
Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 07:27 pm: |
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Thanks John,
I'm pretty happy with my first boat building attempt. It's not perfect but I'm please with the result none the less. Do you have any snaps of yours to post or are there any to see in earlier posts? |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 12:11 am: |
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David
Here are some pics of my boat. She is 14 feet long and is around 70 years old. The engine is approx 65+ years according to a Blaxland.
expert.
Your bio says you are a movie maker. Ever thought of a doco about putt putts?
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Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 12:38 am: |
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Hello John,
Your Blaxland could be no earlier than 1939, because that is when Chapman & Sherack licenced Blaxland Rae to build their engines. A most unusual arrangement, having 3 firms making the same engine in the same country. The other firm was in Perth, WA, not Scotland!
I could write more about Chapman and Blaxland history if anyone is interested.
Eric |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 14
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 04:05 am: |
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Eric
The engine was made in 39 or 40 according to Aub Rose. He recently undertook work on the mag and water pump. He worked for Blaxland Rae and then Blaxland Chapman for 65 years. He is now mid 80's.
He told me he new Chappy (the Chapman in Chapman) very well. Aub is a very remarkable man whose great knowledge will disappear with him. Maybe there's another idea for a doco David!!! |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 15
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 04:07 am: |
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Eric
I would be more than interested to hear about Blaxland et al from you. |
Rod Gillespie
Member
Username: dougall
Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 05:12 pm: |
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Hi Eric, I would love to read anything that you can post on the history of Chapman/Blaxland. I did speak to Aub Rose some years ago and would love to get him to put his memories on tape. These motors are part of Australia's heritage. Rod. |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 05:18 pm: |
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OK, Rod and John, I will put my research notes into a reader-friendly form. Better give me a day or two.
Eric |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 14
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 11:46 pm: |
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I said "OK, Rod and John, I will put my research notes into a reader-friendly form. Better give me a day or two."
Still working on it! There are now others involved so that we can get as much information as possible. So, the deadline has been extended somewhat.
If you have any Chapman or Blaxland information that might be helpful, please let me know off-line. I would rather put it all together before publishing. Then you can start to pull it apart!!
Eric |
David Myers
Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 12:35 am: |
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Hello again Eric,
On the Chapman/Blaxland history you should talk to Robert Chapman who is the grandson of 'Chappy' Chapman and now lives here on Lake Macquarie. If you like I will give him a call to see if he would like to pass on any info for your research. I am sure he would not mind.
Regards,
Dave |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 15
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 12:50 am: |
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Thanks Dave for that. It would be good to find out what he has in the way of recorded history.
Regards,
Eric
PS, Nobody has asked me what my engine is. Either it is so common or nobody cares!! |
David Myers
Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 01:43 am: |
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OK Eric, I will be the mug and ask. 'What engine do you have Eric'.
My Interests are:
Hall Marine Engines.
Made by Hall Engineering
Hilly Street
Mortlake NSW 1945 - 1975
Blaxland/Chapman
Stuart Turner
Any others I may come across
Cheers,
Dave |
John Roseland
Member
Username: rosey
Post Number: 18
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 04:24 am: |
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Eric
I am also curious as to the type of donk. Hope its not "chinese!!!"
Dave
Are you living in Brightwaters with that real bute carvel launch? If so Mark Durnian told me you had some probs with the Stuart Turner, are they sorted? |
David Myers
Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 05:53 am: |
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Hi John,
No not me. I live at Arcadia Vale and have a 12 ft carvel with a little Hall fitted and an almost complete 18ft Carvel Counter Stern/Fantail Stern with a P55+ Stuart. I have fully rebuilt the Stuart with a few mods as well and is ready to fit.
My mate Peter lives at Brightwaters and has a new 20ft Lapstrake Cabin Launch with a Stuart. He did have a few probs early on untill I rebuilt the Maggie and Carby and now runs really well.
You should come on some of our monthly outings on the Lake. We alternate between the Bottom and Top ends of the Lake usually once a month with our group of about 4 to 6 boats on average on the run.
Give me a ring sometime. 49751136 / 0412699502.
Off to Tassie next week for the Wooden Boat Festival and then a tour around amongst the Huon and King Billy timbers for a few weeks. 4 couples going from up here.
Cheers,
Dave |
Andrew Menkart
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 828
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 08:25 am: |
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David,
Hope you will take some pictures at the Wooden Boat Festival and post them here when you get back!
Thanks! |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 16
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 05:17 pm: |
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When I said that no one has asked about "my" engine, I was referring to the one on the left.
It is an Orient, taken from a Jan. 1909 Australian Motorist advertisement for Charles S Dean, Orient Motor Works, Beach Rd., Mentone, Victoria, Australia. The caption reads "12 H.P. marine engine, with enclosed type reverse gear."
Further: "Marine engines built for all classes of launches. Suppliers to the Victorian Government, Ports & Harbours and Health Departments, Diamond Drill Co etc."
Two other things listed: "Specially designed stationary engines for station and farm work."
and "Catalogues post free". How I often wish for a time machine!!
Well, now you know as much about Orient engines as I do. I have never found another reference.
Eric |
David Myers
Member
Username: dave_myers
Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 08:24 pm: |
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Hi Andrew,
Certainly will take many photos. Will post the best ones when I return in about 5 weeks.
Cheers,
Dave |
Andrew Menkart
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 832
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 08:57 pm: |
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David,
Sounds good. Hope you have a great time!
Eric,
Would you post a larger picture of the Orient Motor Works engine?
Or maybe start a new thread with Orient Motor Works and the title and post it there. You never know there might be someone else searching for info on it and it will be easier to find it it has it's own thread. Thanks! |
Barry Millar
Advanced Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 10:40 am: |
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Hello from the frozen north,
I started a thread last October regarding build –up of oil/gas in the crankcase of 2-cycle engines.
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/5/98424.html
There are several Blaxland posts about intentionally adding oil to the sump of Blaxland engines, presumably as normal recommended practice.
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3452/101009.html
I am curious to learn more about this and if possible read any manufacturer’s information included in the instruction manual if this can be scanned and posted.
Thank much
Barry |
Eric Schulz
Member
Username: eric_schulz
Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 07:29 pm: |
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Further to the Orient post, I have started a new thread in One & two cylinder..., together with a larger photo.
I should be able to compress photos with Stuffit, but can't get it to work for me yet. When I do, I will be able to send some better pictures in the future.
Eric |
neil r jones
New member
Username: senojn
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 02:14 am: |
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Eric ,I could not agree more with a recorded history of Blaxland/Rae/Sherack/Chapman/Repco etc.
Rod Gillespie is correct! This history must be recorded.
Aub Rose is THE best source,a lovely man and has the story in his head. I doubt he would be the best video subject, only because he has such to to tell one would run out of tape.
I have had in my mind an award winning journalist for quite a long time to interview Aub.I don't know that he and his wife would be up to this.
I can add little to the history myself but I would love to have such a precious record for interest and posterity.
Please give all of us your stories ,take your time to do it ,it is so IMPORTANT.Tks |
Bruce Trappes
Member
Username: bruce_trappes
Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 01:45 am: |
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David...
The boat looks brilliant.
Can you tell me the size and from whose plans you built the boat please?
I'll also be in Hobart for the festival.
While you are over here, I'd recommend the Trahune (sp) air walk...a little south of Hobart, and definitely visit Strahan if you want to see Huon pine. Tip: Take the full day cruise rather than the half day one.....far better value for money! |
