| Author |
Message |
    
John Woodson
New member
Username: steamup
Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 09:11 pm: | 
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Hello- My Hicks will run fine on 12v battery, when I switch over to magneto, it will start missing after a couple of minutes. I return knife switch to Battery position and it will run all day without a miss. Since it has run very well on 12v battery for 3 the years of my watch , I am wondering if the coil has been wound for the higher battery voltage, leaving the magneto a little short on power for the ignitor?
I do have a new [home shop repro] low tension coil to try out but I dont know how to tell the optimum voltage it should operate with.
I am looking for a spare ignitor in case I must rebuild this one. Does anyone have a Hicks ignitor to sell?
JW w/Mojo on Bethel Island - California Delta
/Mojo |
Roger DiRuscio
Senior Member
Username: solarrog
Post Number: 160
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 09:15 pm: |
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John when are you guys having the next antique boat/steam up out there, I have managed to miss every single event
Fremont,Ca |
John Woodson
New member
Username: steamup
Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 10:18 pm: |
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The Sacramento River Steamboat Regatta happens at the B&W Resort, in Isleton on the last weekend that falls completely in Sept. So this years dates are Sept 23-24, but boaters will arrive as early as Wednesday, Sept 20. It is about a 10 mile cruise upriver for me, so I take a sleeping bag and spend 4 nights aboard Mojo at the Marina. So make a hole in your Sept this year - it's a fun event. |
miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 234
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 09:00 am: |
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The ignitor works becaue of the current that is interrupted when the ignitor opens up. Actually , it is the energy in the magnetic field that is around the coil and its collapse that causes the spark.
The battery is supplying enough curent for the ignitor to work properly.
It looks as if your magneto doesn't provide enough current. You might want to check to make sure your magnet is good and strong.
The magnet can be "recharged" although I have not doe this myself.
This type of ignition works better on DC (battery) than AC (magneto).
Thinking out loud, I wonder if a full-wave bridge rectifier on the magneto output might not be the answer. The rectifier changs the AC to DC. However it might be necessary to think about protecting the rectifier from high voltage transients - a simple capacitor might do the trick.
I like your boat and your pictures.
miro |
Lawrence T Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: larry_from_maryland
Post Number: 181
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 07:38 pm: |
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Here's one more thought on this.John deere farm engines need the mag timed to the igniter so that the maximun current is made when the igniter opens.If this is not done an engine will run on a battery ,but not the mag. Basicly you set the engine so the igniter is starting to open. Then turn the mag by hand and find where it is the tightest and connect to the engine. |
John Woodson
New member
Username: steamup
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
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This Splitdorf mag has been rebuilt, and magnets recharged in place. Mag is timed to the ignitor and engine runs fine on mag for a couple of minutes then will occasionally miss. When switched back to battery, it will not miss for 2 years. Switch back to mag & eng will miss after 2 minutes, then miss after a minute then miss again after another minute, ....etc.
I still want to know if a low tension coil can be wound to optimize operation on 12v battery instead of 6v battery. If yes, then I will run a 12v coil with 12v battery to start and maneuver, and switch over to Mag/6v coil on long runs
Between myself and previous owner, this coil/ignitor has been running on 12v battery for 5 years. I ran it for 8 hrs straight once. I have had no ignitor trouble, but if I can reduce wear on ignitor points by running a coil wound for 12v, then I will do that.
Does anyone have knowlege/recommendation for building a low tension coil for operating on 12v battery, instead of 6v?
Thank you for your reply-
JW |
Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 358
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 09:14 am: |
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Here is a thought that may be part explanation. The early DC low tension magnetos came in two basic versions. They can look identical from the outside but if you can remove a brush or acess plate examine the number of segments on the armature and the wire size. Those that are intended for jump spark (buzz coils) have many more segments on the communtator therefore higher output volatage at the same RPM as the M/B magneto. The windings wire size is much smaller than the windings on the M/B magneto. The M/B segments are typicaly three and four times the width of the segments on the jump spark magneto. The wire size is much larger say 18 AWG vice 22 AWG. Joe Suydam told me this and I found him to be very knowledgeable of the subject. I wonder if part of your problem is armature coil starts to heat up from excessive current draw and in turn the resistance goes up dropping the current flow to the inductor? In other words you have a buzz coil mag not M/B mag. |
John Woodson
Member
Username: steamup
Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 04:54 pm: |
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This Splitdorf is not a DC mag, there are no brushes inside, rotating the armature produces 2 distinct 'bumps' of AC current.
The M/B points are normally open, so there should be no current draw until ignition phase. I don't have another version of Splitdorf to use for comparison. Is there any other way to evaluate this wrong-model-mag theory? |
John Woodson
Member
Username: steamup
Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 04:34 pm: |
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Update ---
Today, on further inspection with a test meter, I see that my magneto circuit connects directly to the ignitor. The induction coil is not included in the magneto circuit, only in the 12v battery circuit to the ignitor. The ignition switch is a double throw knife switch that isolates each power supply to the ignitor.
So, the trouble can't be in the coil, and must be in the magneto.
This Splitdorf was rebuilt by a magneto shop in Sausalito before I got the boat. I recently took the magneto to a mag guy in San Jose and he zapped the magnets [in place on mag] with his charger, then tested the output spinning it by hand while connected to his test light bulb. The bulb flashed brightly and he said it looked as powerful as any he had seen.
Harumph! ......so it is still a mystery to me why Hicks will always misfire after running on mag for a couple of minutes at cruising speed, then miss with increasing frequency. Returning the switch to battery position, the engine will never ever misfire. |
Lawrence T Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: larry_from_maryland
Post Number: 190
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 06:46 pm: |
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The connections are correct, that mag has the windings inside and would have no external coil.There are some farm engines that have 2 posts for a spring on the igniter. One post keeps the points open mostly for running on a battery. The other post keeps the points closed untill it fires for running on a mag.There are some good info on ignition systems on Harry Mathews website.I go to www.atis.net and click links and scroll down to his site. |
Keith Tollett
Member
Username: boatbum
Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 02:04 am: |
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You mentioned that the mag does not go throught the coil. I think this may be your problem. The coil is designed to amplify the effect of the battery and or the mag. Actually the coil creates a large EMF that induces a large hot spark at the contactor. With the coil out of the circut the spark is greatly reduced, thus causing poor ignition and your missfire. Try rewiring the set up so that only the battery and or the mag is isolated with the coil always connected to your ignitor. I think that will solve the misfiring on mag situation.
I look forward to seeing your boat at the meet. |
