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| Author |
Message |
    
Bob Albers
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 09:51 pm: | 
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Hello...I'm looking to purchase a palmer pw 27 engine for a sailboat project.....can anyone help with what values are for one in "fair" condition??
Thanks in advance.....
Bob Albers |
andrew
| | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 05:52 pm: |
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Bob,
As I'm sure you are aware... it is difficult to assign a value to these old engines in general.
A PW27 is a nice engine (I have one in a Seabright Skiff) but are generally not bought by collectors (Dick Day might disagree with me on this one), but are generally bought by someone like yourself who wants to put one in a boat. Subsequently someone that has one in a boat is in a bind if they need a new cylinder. They are generally forced to buy a complete engine to get a cylinder. There is no source for new cylinders, and any attempt at making one would cost many thousands. Some people have put air cooled Wisconsin cylinders on a PW27, but that is generally not suitable in a boat... especially a sailboat where the engine is below decks.
So.... this might not help you much but I guess what I am saying is that as always... condition is very important. If you expect to use the engine, make sure that the water jacket is clear. If you plan on spending the considerable time and money to install one in a boat, you might start looking for a spare engine to have in case you need parts.
Regards,
Andrew |
Richard Day
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2002 - 09:45 pm: |
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Andrew, I agree totally with what you are saying. I would expect to pay at least $1,000 for a complete, fresh water cooled PW-27 with reverse gear. A salt water cooled engine would be $150.00 at best evem if it wasn't cracked. The life of a salt water cooled PW-27 is moot and the risk of failure is too high to put much into one. Running at a show is one thing but putting one in a boat to use is a different ball game. |
Robert Albers
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 10:09 am: |
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Thanks for the info.....how can you tell if its been fresh water or salt water cooled??? Simply by where the motor is located in the country perhaps??? Unfortunately I'll probably be buying one sight unseen......what are some questions I should ask????
Thanks for the help
Bob Albers |
andrew
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 10:58 am: |
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Bob,
Location is a good indication...
The other thing you (or whoever looks at it for you) can do is remove the water inlet and/or outlet fitting from the cylinder/head and look it to see if it is clogged with rust. In badly corroded salt water engine it will be solid rust. You could also remove the head and look at the water passages in the cylinder and head.
Exterior rust is also an indication.
We sell a reprint of the PW27 manual if you need it.
Regards,
Andrew |
Richard Day
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 05:01 pm: |
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I would avoid removing the head unless one has a new spare head gasket. They are very hard to find and I don't know of any anywhere. Fresh water rust looks different from salt water rust. Fresh water rust usually is a fine grain surface rust with perhaps a few small flakes in the bottom of the water jacket. This sort of rust is no problem and one should be able to get a fair idea on how much rust build up in the bottom of the water jacket by removeing the drain plug in the lower aft face of the water jacket. There may be a little rust plug at the inner end of the drain plug that must be broken out to see into the water jacket. Remove the brass water outlet fitting on the top of the head and look into the water jacket trying to get an idea what the rust looks like. If it is salt water rust there usually is a lot of flaking off of the iron surface and it will collect in the bottom of the water jacket. It will turn hard and even carbide tools have a hard time penatrating it. Some people try to get rid of it with acid. All this does is destroy what hope you have for the engine as it will leave paper thin walls and render the engine a static display at best. Make sure the seller has not tried to use acid to clean out the water jackets. Find out if there is or was a heat exchanger with the engine if it was used in salt water. Salt in the iron will slowly expand if it is allowed to dry out and eventually crack the outer water jacket just like freezing. Salt cracks tend to be very rough whereas fresh water cracks don't have the rough inside edges that salt water cracks do. There is no stopping this action once it starts. About the only thing you can do is put epoxy on the cracks and run the engine. Epoxy works great and it doen't stress the castings the way welding or brazing does. Fresh water cracks can be welded or brazed but that is a very special process with controled heating and cooling. It is not a process that the average back yard mechanic is eqipted to accomplish. Useing EPOXY you cannot do more damage than already has been done.
Any sale should be conditioned on no cracks. and all parts there in good condition. There can be some surface rust but no deep pitted rust indicating it probably sat out side for years and who know what condition the inside of the engine may be. If you want to check the inside of the engine just remove the cap screws that hold the cylinder onto the crankcase and take it off without disturbing the head etc. Prior to going that far look at the oil on the dipstic. Is it is light cream/caramel it means water is in it and you will probably see rust on the internal cast iron surfaces. If it is clear it is possibly ok. Water can seperate out of oil if the engine has not been run for a long time so the appearance can be deceiving. Any crack in the water jackets mean the engine is just about in the junk class. All the other parts of the PW-27 are available somewhere. A fresh water cooled cylinder and head if good are worth at least $500.00 to $800.00 in my opinion. The rest of the engine with reverse gear,if in excellent condition will add at least $500.00 A good salt water cooled cylinder and head would be nearer to $300.00 as they are so unpredictable particularly around the valve guides. My thoughts on the subject and you know what free advice is worth. |
Robert Albers
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 10:22 pm: |
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Thanks Guys!!!! Thanks for all the great info!!!! This site is great....thanks for educating someone completely unfamiliar with old engines, but has been "sparked" in interest.....You seem so knowledgeable....May I suggest a section added to this web site on "What to look for in old Engines" for other novices and those interested in incorporating one in a boat?....There's nothing like passing on good knowledge and wisdom....Even if it's "obvious" to you...it's great education for those of us less versed in the subject....Thanks again.....and keep it coming!!! ilook forward to using and learning about my Palmer pw27 when I finally purchase one....
Bob Albers |
sandi
Visitor
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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We need to replace the water pump on our palmer 27. Does anyone know of any new water pumps that fit the original fittings? |
Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 404
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 08:07 pm: |
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Sandi,
It is a Jabsco pump. At a real boat yard you might find parts.
The current impeller number is 4528-0003
The Jabsco web page is here
If your pump body and shaft are worn any competant machine shop should be able to help you out.
Hope this helps
Ernie |
Diggerdown
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 11:29 am: |
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Ernie,
Is there a schematic drawing of the water pump? I inherited a boat with a Palmer pw27 and the water has stopped circulating. It has always been in fresh water. |
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