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John Kemister
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 10:53 pm: | 
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Greetings all.
Firstly, a great site - I enjoy hearing from similar minds about the various engines and tech questions. Secondly, I also really enjoyed my colleague Len's contribution and the subsequent 'Yank' banter. All the more fun as I will soon be welcoming a lovely Colorado lassie into my family as a daughter-in-law.
Thirdly, my developing passion seems to be 2 3/4 HP Vinco engines. I have one in my boat plus one spare, and have recently acquired what seems to be a pre war model with slight differences to the later models - tapered plug thread, smaller and cruder porting, different exhaust mount, different pump mounting, cast iron piston with 1/4" wide rings, and a wider mount for a Bosch magneto(later Wico). The question for Aussie members is - Does anyone have a picture/diagram of the prewar Bosch magneto so I know what to look out for? Or better still, does anyone have a unit to spare that they will sell? On the history hunt - I have been given copies of some brochures and tech specs, and was contacted by a nephew of Vincent Brothers who gave me some info on the family, but I have not been able to find much company history yet. By the way, how does one include images into a message on this site?
Cheers
John |
andrew
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:08 pm: |
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John,
Good to hear from you. Glad you are welcoming a "Colorado lassie" into your family... although she might not like being refered to as such...
I can't help you with the Vinco, hopefully someone else can.
Read the directions in the "Formatting" section on the left. Look at the section for "other formatting - images". You basically need to enter:
\image{anyword}
That is a "placemarker" for your photo, after you confirm the post it will ask you to choose the image file from your hard drive. The word between the "{}" can be anyword that will help you remember the photo... photo1, vinco, mypicture... The image must be under 40Kb and should be less than 500 pixels wide.
If you have any trouble with photos you can email them to me and I will post them with your text.
Regards,
Andrew |
Sydney Greenstreet
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:42 pm: |
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well.. amazing... Len has colleagues? Stone the crows cobber Len knows where there are some old maggies...so do I but maybe the police have taken the owners away to assist in drug related enquiries.. There was a brand new, still in its box, antique bronze bosch maggie at the auto electrical shop at the south side of Ulladulla( top of the hill) and Len & my friends " Canabis Industries" 8 Ray St Sussex Inlet had a comprehensive collection of salvaged parts. Caution would be advisable though - tell the police ( on watch out front)that you are only interested in Old Boat parts and not the cash crop. Both these places are on the south coast of NSW. Sorry I dont have phone numbers. I had no trouble getting parts for the old Bosch Maggie on my Penguin... out of the way rural places seem to have them and the guy I bought some bits off said they were still in the Bosch catalouge...that was the autoelectrician... not canabis industries I'm sure there catalouge is good but I know nothing...... Good Luck with the Vinco |
Tim Mulvey
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 03:48 am: |
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John - We've spoken on the phone a few times. Normally, I'd phone you but for everyones benefit I'll post this message.
I do volunteer work in the Engine Area of the Australian Heritage Fleet at Darling Harbour, in Sydney, OZ.
I would be interested in getting any history on the Vincent family and copies of any material other than what I've already sent you.
I going through a lot of old magazines, though most pics and commentary don't give the specifics of what you are seeking. However, the hunt continues and I have you on my list against Vinco related info.
By the way, John is one our 6 official OME T-shirt models in OZ. |
Chris Grallelis
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 05:07 pm: |
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I would like to get onto the Vinco Wagon.
I recently become a proud owner of a 4 HP Vinco.
I saw John Kemister and I thank him, as now I have a project which is putting together a 4 HP Vinco.
I started rust removal, sealing and painting parts to keep from the elements.
So far most of parts are in good condition.
I am after a water cooled muffler (exhurst box).
Also what is the normal thickness of a gasket that is between the bottom and top harf of the engine?
Len has other colleague ME. |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 06:09 pm: |
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Hi Folks. Looks like a good discussion has started!
Many thanks, Andrew, for the image info. Incidentally, the 'Colorado lassie' does not at all mind being referred to as such. I wouldn't like to create another international incident!
Thanks for the tips, Sydney, the Ulladulla maggie was in for repair, but I will follow up your other leads. Incidentally, these engines were not used as 'grass' cutters,  . It's a small world, my boat came from Ray Street Sussex Inlet.
Tim, you can act as Vinco info collator if you wish, I will post the info I have on this site for the benefit of all. Funny, there does not seem to be much factory info.
Chris, good to hear you are having fun with the 4 HP. For member info, I located the engine in bits at Winda Woppa, near Hawkes Nest, (after WHIMBREL brought out the locals and we started talking. It is great how these old boats generate so much interest). The engine was complete with a 'new' unfinished cylinder casting, purchased as the last available before the factory closed in '54. It needs some holes drilled and tapped, and has a small repairable casting flaw on one port bridge but otherwise is in mint condition. I look forward to seeing it going, Chris. 0.030" should be fine for the gasket, not critical though, just enough to take up any surface discrepancies. Allow for the thickness you choose when you rebabbitt the bearings.
John |
marks
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 06:14 pm: |
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Ok, i've been shamed into it. My apologies to you John, Tim, Steve, Bernie.... whom I've promised copies to.
I'm currently working 7 days a week and will continue to do so up until mid April. Consequently my hobbies have all stopped
If you could let me know what you want out of the following and whether paper or on a CD:
1) a number of Vinco adds.
2) color brochures for 2 3/4 HP and 4 HP singles.
3) color brochure for 8HP twin.
4) brochures on Vinco supplied launches.
5) Installation drawings for engine beds.
My understanding is that Vinco only manufactured the 3 engine types with the smaller engine originally being 2 1/2 HP which was upgraded to 2 3/4 HP in the 1930's (I think although I'll check the dates).
One way to tell the early 2 1/2 HP engines is that they do not have a solid flywheel. John I will find out about the magneto for you, the pre war Bosch's are quite common. I do know of a prewar 2 1/2 HP, although I'm not sure if the maggy is original.
I may also have access to a manual for the singles if the owner is prepared to lend it to me.
I also have a lttle bit of history which is currently hand written notes which I will type up and provide with the copies.
Basically Vinco started life in Park Rd Glebe. They later moved to Victoria Rd Ryde. During this time they made marine engines and floor polishers. They finished life making garden products and parts of Vinco were ultimately absorbed into a larger engineering group based in Silverwater NSW. The remnants of this group are still in business although they apparently have no Vinco records.
BTW does anybody know anything about a link to Invincible Motors of North George St - Sydney?
Regards
Mark S. |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 07:31 pm: |
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Hi Tim.
I am unclear about the different flywheel styles.
All three of mine (one assumed early, two later models) have a thin web with three equally spaced 1 1/2" dia holes through it.
I have not seen a solid flywheel yet. Are all of mine early models then?
Cheers
J |
marks
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 08:10 pm: |
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John,
They are the earlier models. The later models don't have the three holes. The one I have is solid.
I've assumed for some time that the flywheel style change came about when the engines were rerated from 2 1/2 HP to 2 3/4 HP. This is what I was once told although it could be wrong.
It maybe that you do have three early ones.
I know that of the ads I have seen anything from sometime in the late 40's(I'll check the date again) had solid flywheels and were rated 2 3/4 HP whereas adds showing the three holes were rated 2 1/2 HP and were from prewar dates.
John do any of your engines have the original brass tag?
Regards
Mark S. |
Richard Day
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 09:25 pm: |
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For what its worth when I pour babbit for a two stroke crankshaft top bearing I have found it makes things a lot simpler to take three thicknesses of gasket material. one .002, one .003 and one .007 is plenty and don't worry about the shape except where they lie along side the crankshaft there they must be straight. Don't bother cutting to the shape of the final gaskets you will need. Support with similar scrap thicknesses of gasket so when you tighten down all around the top half onto the bottom half of the crankcase that you are not canting the joint. The idea is to make it easy when it comes to final running in that all you need to do is pull out a thickness say .002 and begin tightening down the joint With plenty of oil in the bearing belt the shaft up to a motor and run at a couple of hundred RPM. Feel for overheating heating and if it gets too hot slack off the pressure. I have been told Ford never scraped the model Ts he just ran them in and got a fine finish doing it. I let the sun heat the crankcase and crankshaft so there is no chill in the iron. Try to find a course file like they use for filing horses hoofs to smooth off the excess babbit. They will cut the babbit and not load up. Particulary important on the bottom half of the bearing. Don't know if this helps or not. Good luck. |
Chris Grallelis
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 10:12 pm: |
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Thanks Richard, as John said the top (cylinder housing) is new and I have to put new white metal bearings in. Your info will be some help.
The fly wheel on the 4 HP is solid with two 1/2 inch holes on each side of each other.
What do you call vintage or classic with these type of engines? |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 10:14 pm: |
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I will try some pics of WHIMBREL during work on it.
It looks a little different now but I need to get some digital images.
Cheers
John |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 10:19 pm: |
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Dang, how do I upload my images to the 'Your Image Here' boxes? Apologies, but I am not up to speed with this.
John |
andrew
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 10:56 pm: |
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John,
When your are "previewing" the text of your image you will see the "your image here box". After you "post" the message the next screen will allow you to "browse" your hard drive for the images on your computer as jpeg or gif files.
Does that make sense to you?
If not you can email them to me and I will post them.
Regards,
Andrew
[email protected] |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 11:20 pm: |
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Thanks Andrew, I will try again.
Mark, the plot thickens - all three have holes in the flywheel and yet the 'earlier' model has all the attributes listed earlier (cast iron piston, three mounting bolts for the water pump, etc). The 'later' ones have aluminium pistons, narrow rings, two water pump bolts, and better porting. Maybe the more 'modern' two are composites using older flywheels. Who knows what they did in the past to keep the hire fleets running? All three engines have the brass makers plate, from memory - "Vinco, made by Vincent Brothers 44 Park RD Glebe NSW. For correct lubrication mix 1 pint of Mobil Gargoyle AF Oil to 4 gallons of motor spirit".
The plates do not indicate any model numbers or HP. Engine serial numbers are on the forward face of the maggie mount, I cannot remember them at the mo'.
I will try images again.
WHIMBREL before work
Paint scraping and engine installation complete
Closeup of Vinco engine
Cheers. |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 11:31 pm: |
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Thanks Andrew, I tried again, one image uploaded successfully but the other two are too big. I wil email them to you.
Mark, the plot thickens - all three have holes in the flywheel and yet the 'earlier' model has all the attributes listed earlier (cast iron piston, three mounting bolts for the water pump, etc). The 'later' ones have aluminium pistons, narrow rings, two water pump bolts, and better porting. Maybe the more 'modern' two are composites using older flywheels. Who knows what they did in the past to keep the hire fleets running? All three engines have the brass makers plate, from memory - "Vinco, made by Vincent Brothers 44 Park RD Glebe NSW. For correct lubrication mix 1 pint of Mobil Gargoyle AF Oil to 4 gallons of motor spirit".
The plates do not indicate any model numbers or HP. Engine serial numbers are on the forward face of the maggie mount, I cannot remember them at the mo'.
Cheers. |
Tim Mulvey
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2003 - 04:14 am: |
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When Vincent Bros closed the engine section all the stock was brought by John Forrest.
He's working on my Stuart Turner P5/Lucas SR1 magneto at this moment. John was a manager at Blaxland Rae before he left in the 1940's (yes - he's about 90 years old).
Trivia item - according to John, the Blaxland specialist Aub Rose mentioned in a few threads on OME used to work for him at Blaxland Rae. Aub is also still operating his workshop.
Both had separate marine engineering busineses post Blaxland Rae.
John still has Vinco parts available - essentially, rings for earlier and later models, conrods (several bronze ones and a lot of others in alloy). Also, has a brand new crankcase for a Vinco twin.
If you want John's telephone number contact me as it would be inappropriate to post it here. |
Johk Kemister
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2003 - 05:53 am: |
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Hi Tim. This is the info Norman Vincent offered.
"Vincent Bros. (Herb and Jack) of Wentworth (sic) Park Road, Glebe were uncles of mine (my fathers brothers). Your 2 1/2 HP was the smallest engine, then there was the 3 1/2, 4 1/2 and an 8-10 HP twin. They also made clinker hulled boats 16 and 18ft (I think), floor sanders and polishers.
At one stage they made some water scooters but they never took on. Were these the forerunners of the Jet Ski?
They moved their business from Glebe to Ryedale Road, West Ryde.
If your 'Vinco' is of pre-war vintage then I think your magneto would have been a Bosch, when war broke out of course Bosch were no longer available so Wico took over the electrics. The castings for 'Vincos' were made at Bramwell and Vincent foundry (Charlie Vincent was Herb and Jacks father, while Bramwell was Charlie Vincent's brother-in-law). My father Frank Vincent was the manager of Bramwell and Vincent foundry. I think one of Herb Vincent's daughters is still alive and Jack Vincent's daughter I still keep in touch with -----"
So that is what I have so far. Incidentally, Norman is a member of the Bombala Historical Engine and Machinery Society.
For reference my engine numbers are -
'Older' model with wide mag base, just acquired -2182
'Later' model spare, mag base may have been modified to narrow - 856X
'Later' model in boat with narrow mag base - 2484
As you can see, the numbers do not seem to make chronological sense.
Slight corrrection to the makers plate info - "Vinco, manufactured by Vincent Brothers, 44 Park Road Glebe NSW. To ensure correct lubrication mix 1 pint of Gargoyle Mobiloil "AF" to 4 gallons of motor spirit".
That's it for now - Goodnight All. |
andrew
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2003 - 10:44 am: |
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John sent me his other photos, I will post them below:
 |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2003 - 04:49 pm: |
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Thanks Andrew - much appreciated.
Note the two bolts for the water pump mount, compared to three on the 'earlier' model I have, plus the exhaust has two vertically aligned bolts, versus two horizontally aligned for the 'earlier' model. I wonder what the expansion chamber looked like on the 'earlier' models?
I am trying for authenticity of installation as much as possible, but for the purists -
The clutch is a 'Blaxland', if anyone has a 'Vinco' one I would be most grateful, although this is a neater installation.
I will fit a 'Wico' maggie soon.
There originally was no water connection to the expansion chamber but I put that in to prevent accidental burns on the exhaust. I have a drain cock under the chamber to clear residual water after use.
The exhaust outlet was originally threaded.
I now have a two way cock on
the pump inlet so I can pump the bilges while running - its works very well, although good bilge housekeeping is essential!
Cheers |
marks
| | Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 12:17 am: |
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John,
I've gone thru my brochures and adds.
The latest(1929) pre-war add I have shows a 2 1/2 Hp with the three holes and also a Bosch magneto.
The next adds I have are from 1956 and show no holes and a what looks to me like lucas mag. The add states finest quality English magneto.
The brochures, which are undated show all engines with no holes. Again the mag is stated as English.
Another undated add says Lucas magneto.
I guess they could have probably used both wico's an lucas mags.
An early add also shows the 4HP with two holes.
Who knows? All I can say is that engines with no holes are most likely later than 1956 whilst those with holes are 1929 and before. For the period 1929 - 1956?
Regards
Mark S. |
Tim Mulvey
| | Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 04:19 am: |
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John K, I think John Forrest has the Vinco clutches - at least I saw he had a pattern that had "Vincent Bros" marked on it and it looked similar. I'll ask him when I see him next and if he has one I'll get a price for you within the next week or two. Otherwise you can phone him - I'll email you his phone number.
Also, thanks for the history on the firm as it will help us at the Australian Heritage Fleet Museum. Also, thanks to Mark.
PS: They look like a nice engine but I'm biased of course - my vote is still for a Stuart Turner P5. |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 04:03 pm: |
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Well, it seems a little bit of Aussie history has been preserved! Tim, if you could contact John F about the clutch that would be great, I would like the clutch to be an original. Mark, a CD of the brochures etc would be great - you can pick up a lot of detail from them. Natually I will reimburse costs etc. With my 'definite' prewar 'Vinco', I will take the approach of cleaning, repairing obvious damage and inhibiting so that it can be kept as a type example, rather than doing a complete restoration. The paint is not original but it is very old, the colours are close to traces I found on one of my other engines though.
Thanks to all for your willing contributions, there is much very useful information out there. Thanks also for being able to utilise this site, it is appreciated.
I am now going out for a 'putt-putt'on Lake Burley Griffin.
Cheers
John |
Chris Grallelis
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 04:18 pm: |
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Mark,
What was the colour of the 4 HP Vinco?
I have started painting my Vinco Green similar to John's 2 1/2 HP. |
John Kemsister
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 04:35 pm: |
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No idea Chris, see if you can find any traces on the old rusted cylinder casting and flywheel, in corners under bolts etc. Go right down to the metal and check the last paint layer. |
marks
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 05:52 pm: |
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Chris,
The single cylinder Vinco's were green. A fairly light green.
Greasecups,waterpump, mag hold down screws and drain cocks were red.
The rim of the flywheel was silver or grey.
The twin's were exactly the same scheme except te green was a silver or grey.
Regards
Mark S. |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 07:17 pm: |
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Hi Mark/Chris.
This looks like another good discussion developing! I have painted the engine in my boat dark green with red flywheel rim and with all the bronze fitttings clean simply because they were all the colours I could find on my later engine at the time, and the scheme looks good anyway. However, in the interests of authenticity it would be good to have the correct original colours.
Scratching around on the water pump on my 'prewar' Vinco I have found all these layers present in order from outermost -
Dark green
Light green
Silver and
a dark Burgundy Red (almost looks like a lacquer)
Bronze base
Should I eventually decide to 'restore' my engine accurately I will have a very good original paint colour sample verifying your red at least, Mark. I will prepare some colour swatches. The red seems to be original being the earliest layer, but I am not so sure of the others, seeing as they are all on top of the red. Did you get the colours from an actual engine or from brochures? Do you have good light green and silver/grey colour samples? I will have a closer look at the rest of the engine and see what evidence is remaining.
Cheers
John |
marks
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 07:34 pm: |
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Hi John,
I have the colors from brochures and also from a couple of original engines(not mine unfortunately).
It's interesting whay you say about the red being a sort of burgundy laquer. The red I've seen is sort of like some of my wife's nail polish.
I will try to match the green for you.
Regards
Mark S. |
Chris g
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 08:58 pm: |
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Thanks all, John the old cylinder was red but
I don't like red which I think does not go with the wood on the boat.
I will keep with the green. |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 09:26 pm: |
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Chris, have a careful look close to the metal and see if you can find any pale green traces.I will have a play over the weekend.
The red was definitely a later repaint.
Mark, 'nail polish' describes the red quite well, funny looking stuff.
Between us all we should be able to get some accurate colour cards for reference.
Cheers |
Tim Mulvey
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 03:59 am: |
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On the Vinco clutch, I spoke to John Forest. He no clutches - only the pattern and was not sure whether the single and twins had the same clutch, but then why wouldn't they be the same.
I can raise with him about whether some arrangement could negotiated about getting a few cast. If a few of you were interested it would make a big difference to the average cost. |
Len TATE
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 04:37 am: |
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John,
I have the "claw type" clutch available, but no lever. You could convert the lever from the "wedge" type clutch without too much trouble. It would look reasonably authentic.
Chris showed me your jig for casting white metal bearings, and I'm getting enthusiastic, particularly now it's been suggested that it isn't necessary to scrape the new bearings. I might add, with all due modesty, that I now have 9Kg of "Magnolia" bearing metal. |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 06:26 am: |
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Thanks for following John F up, Tim - appreciated. The 4HP of Chris's is the same, just larger. I will check Len's one out, thanks Len. 9 Kg? - looks like we will need to have a bearing casting workshop soon, hey?
On the paint scene, I had a scrape on the old engine and found, from the outermost layer -
Dark green, similar to my repaint,
A slightly lighter green and a
Very light green
Cast iron base
So, I will do a colour sample of the lowermost light green layer and post it to you, Mark. I also did a good match of the red on the water pump, Burgundy is a good description. (Wattyl Supercryl auto paint tinters - 139 Red Violet and a touch of 021 Reduced Black to tone it down, 20 to 1). I will send a card of this as well. Could you please email your postal address?
Cheers
John |
Chris g
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 08:26 pm: |
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John,
I had a good look at colour of the 4 HP and very thing down to the Clutch handle is red. There is no sign of any other colour. |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 07:21 pm: |
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Chris. Looks like yours may have been completely stripped. I have colour swatches of the waterpump Burgundy Red and body Light Green I found on mine. (I could not find any traces of the flywheel rim silver/grey). I will bring them to the next meeting or sailing day.
Another question to readers on Vinco history -
Did the nameplate oil recommendations change at all pre to post war? ie from Gargoyle Mobiloil to Castrolite? I noticed the literature from Tim said Castrolite, 1/3 pint to one gallon of standard petrol, (1:24), whereas my plates show Gargoyle Mobiloil, 1 pint to 1 gallon of motor spirit, (1:32). |
John Kemister
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 08:26 pm: |
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Correction of typo - 1 pint to 4 gallons.(1:32) of Gargoyle Mobiloil. |
sidney sowell
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 09:31 am: |
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Please !!!!!!anyone here know about vincent water scooters. i have one now for over 15+ years and i cant find out anything about it. its in great shape .but theres no motor in it .it has a brass plate that reads vincent marine motors from england. please help me with this ive been looking for years to uncover anything about this scooter . thank-u all for anything about this. |
sidney sowell
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 09:35 am: |
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Please !!!!!!anyone here know about vincent water scooters. i have one now for over 15+ years and i cant find out anything about it. its in great shape .but theres no motor in it .it has a brass plate that reads vincent marine motors from england. please help me with this ive been looking for years to uncover anything about this please call me if u canscooter . thank-u all for anything about this.please call me collect if u have time thank -u sidney sowell (512)264-0064 |
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John Wagemans
New member
Username: johnnarrau
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2011 - 06:29 am: |
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Can anyone tell me tthe working sof the vinco carburettor? what use s iof different knobs? how to start, what setting of what knob etc. Any advice appreciated |
Rennie Brown
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2015 - 08:15 pm: |
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Hi there, is this blog still operating. i was recently fortunate enough to be given to Vinco marine engines, which require complete rebuilt and parts. Can anyone advise on who to talk to. |
Chester Smith
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2015 - 10:32 pm: |
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Hi Rennie, not sure how many people read this,
i look in every now and then, i have a vinco parts engine, but it is in WA, not sure where you are, cheers, Chester. |
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