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Message |
    
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 153
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 04:15 pm: | 
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J. Sand & Sons, 1023 Rivard Detroit Mich. The fan is wrong, but still a great little motor. Anyone ever heard of them before?
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If anyone can post a photo or advertisement, I would appreciate it.
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solarrog
Senior Member
Username: solarrog
Post Number: 179
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 04:26 pm: |
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These sure do look close
Roger DiRuscio |
solarrog
Senior Member
Username: solarrog
Post Number: 180
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 04:35 pm: |
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darn the picture didnt fit
I wish something could be done about this |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 154
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 04:39 pm: |
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send it to me, and I will post it.
[email protected] |
solarrog
Senior Member
Username: solarrog
Post Number: 181
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 04:40 pm: |
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3rd try |
Scott Peters
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 03:22 pm: |
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Well Bill, it appears as if you have a "mystery of history!" I just checked through the Library of Michigan's collection of Detroit City directories from 1898-1914 and J. Sand and Sons appears for the first time in the 1909 directory, page 1843, as Sand, J. & Sons (Julius, Robert, Frank), Exclusive Mfrs. of High Grade Plumb Rules and Levels, 1023-1025 Rivard (ad page 205).
Page 205 ad refers exclusively to their Bricklayers, Masons and Carpenter's plumb rules and levels. There is a Edward Sand who is listed as a mechanical engineer, so maybe he was making some engines on his own and using the company's space. There is no mention in any of the ads up to 1914, nor in the classified directory under the many categories of Engine, Gasoline of anything for Sand. My best guess is that like many other Detroit builders, they were re-labeling somebody else's engine and marketing it as their own. This may sound stupid, but is there any possibility it might be some kind of drying device used in the masonry trades? |
richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 475
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 05:27 pm: |
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Why do I think the crankcase has a remarkable resemblance to the water cooled Gilmore Cragg? |
ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 623
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 06:31 pm: |
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I thought the crankcase looked like a Detroit Auto Marine
And I always thought your Gilmore Cragg looked auto marineish
 |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 156
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 09:31 pm: |
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Scott Peters,
thanks for spending the time to look the information up for me. I know nothing about the history of this motor, other than what you see in the photos. I was sure hoping j. sands was a small engine, or boat maker. at least the time period matches up. it could have been used for anything, except it doesn't have any governor on it.
and, solarrog, what engine photo did you post? |
solarrog
Senior Member
Username: solarrog
Post Number: 184
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 09:39 pm: |
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the air cooled outboat motor as spotted on the antique outboard motor site, It is believed to be a water sprite, It took several time to make it small enough to post, sure wish it was mine |
Dorothy Anderson
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 12:20 pm: |
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I'm Julius Sand's great, great granddaughter. He patented a level in 1895, and his business became quite successful. His sons had to bail out of the business after he died in 1929. |
andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 1250
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 12:31 pm: |
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Dorothy,
Thanks for posting!
Do you have any other company history you could share with us?
Regards,
Andrew |
richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 489
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 08:12 pm: |
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Ernie, you may be right they both come from Detroit and there is a lot of resemblance. Wish we could come up with a history of Gilmore Cragg. |
deedee
New member
Username: deedee
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 07:27 pm: |
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I tried to post some attachments, but they would not take. I can try again.
Dorothy |
andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 1256
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 05:31 pm: |
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Dorothy,
You could send them to me and I will attach them here.
If they are jpegs or gifs you can put them into the message. If they are pdfs or word documents they will be attached.
I would be happy to help.
Regards,
Andrew |
andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 1278
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 05:56 pm: |
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Dorothy very generously sent us some advertising and newspaper clipings related to Julius Sand. Thank you Dorothy!
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andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 1279
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 06:01 pm: |
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And clippings of Julius J. Sand's funeral of December 17, 1929.
The bottom text of the article was cropped as shown above, there wasn't any more text available. |
solarrog
Senior Member
Username: solarrog
Post Number: 190
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 06:03 pm: |
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It amazes me what information is still out there and is slowly turning up |
andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew
Post Number: 1290
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 10:50 am: |
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Dorothy has also sent us the following:
 |
mikesand
New member
Username: mikesand
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 10:47 pm: |
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My name is mike sand, Julius is my great great grandpa, I was wondering if anybody knew how I could get a hold of Dorothy? |
johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 242
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 06:57 am: |
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Mike, Just go up to the box that has Dorothy's username (DeeDee) high lighted in blue click on it and her email should come up. |
primetrucks
Advanced Member
Username: primetrucks
Post Number: 38
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:42 pm: |
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does anybody have a air cooled engine that looks like the j. sands and sons. i just got one from coolsprings and looks jist like the j sands and sons,the timmer is made a little differnt,belt drive fan. every thing the same would like to see some pictures of air cooled engines. |
david_doyle
Member
Username: david_doyle
Post Number: 16
Registered: 03-2013
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:57 pm: |
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Wow that timing lever sure is close to both the belt AND the spinning blades! Can we assume that men of old were simply more careful and never wore long sleeve jackets or was there a shroud? |
billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 568
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:47 pm: |
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jamie, can you post any photos of the one you bought? |
bruce
Senior Member
Username: bruce
Post Number: 385
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:55 pm: |
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Binder Engine?? Jerry Rigg held the patent.His nick-name.. Stubby or Nick. Middle name Nickloss.... yada yada |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 3044
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 08:06 pm: |
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*
Jamie
Putting air cooled & finned into my data base I found 16 air cooled engs and 8 that had finned heads or flywheels !
I researched Sands back when it was posted and could not come up with anything, ran through all engs listed again and no matches ?
Hard to imagine a spinning fan blade on a small launch!!
This engine is as close as I could find !
* |
primetrucks
Advanced Member
Username: primetrucks
Post Number: 40
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2013 - 10:31 pm: |
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hi bill mine looks just like yours but mine has one more fin on top by the spark plug and the timmer looks like a cady ,big heavy brass with spring loaded plunger.will get some pictures.thanks |
primetrucks
Advanced Member
Username: primetrucks
Post Number: 41
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2013 - 10:41 pm: |
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just found some pictures of what my timmer looks like.the long handle with wood is missing,i have a short handle.  |
