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Tom G.
Member
Username: tomfg
Post Number: 14
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 06:27 pm: | 
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The "U" took the day off yesterday as did I.
Today, I put a new fuel tank shut off valve on, and this one actually holds. I decided, according to a Krice diagram, that I had the throttle spool in backwards, so I switched that around. Put on a "Detroit buzz coil" from my GRAY 4 cycle, stationary engine that I know works good, and tried and tried in vain to get the "U" to fire, with no luck. Re-checked the timing, tried advancing it, retarding it, etc.
Squirted gas in the spark plug hole, squirted gas in the compression release valve. Squirted a little gas on the floor and lit it with a match... yes, it did burn!
Any ideas? If it was flooded the other day, it should have dried out after sitting 24 hours. Only a couple of drops of gas came out the crankcase petcock. Tried a new spark plug.
I can't understand why three days ago, the first time I ever tried to start it, it fired all the time, and I had it running for about 15 seconds twice, and that was with the carb put together wrong. Thanks for any new ideas, Tom |
J.B. Castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 759
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - 06:38 am: |
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Is the compression good, does it bounce? If you think it's low squirt a generous amount of oil in the cylinder and try it. |
Tom G.
Member
Username: tomfg
Post Number: 16
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - 09:32 am: |
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J.B. - I believe the compression is good, as my shoulders are sore this morning. I did squirt some oil down the cylinder at one point as I was trying to find a slight "drag" in the engine when I was spinning it over. Think it turned out to be the timer shaft being out of alignment in it's mounting. A gasket behind the top mounting bolts seemed to cure that. Do these engines start best with the timing at TDC?
Thanks, Tom |
Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1609
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 07:58 am: |
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What are you using for a spark plug?
Suggest going to the local auto parts store and getting an Autolite or Motocraft plug for a Model T ford.
Also when you turn or bounce it up towards compression does it have a squeaky wheeze? If so the cylinder is gas washed and you need to squirt in more oil.
Is the plug wet or dry?
If wet open the priming cup and with the throttle open and ignition on and needle valve (mixture) closed turn till it starts sneezing out of the priming cup. Then close it and see what happens.
What is your gas to oil mixture? I use 24 to 1 in my U and all other old 2 strokes.
Hope this helps
Ernie |
Tom G.
Member
Username: tomfg
Post Number: 17
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 08:41 am: |
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Ernie, I'm using a new Autolite 1/2" NPT plug, but can't remember the number right now. I've lubed up the cylinder with oil a couple of times. I mixed up some 30W Non detergent 25 to 1 originally, and it was firing and trying to run on that. Since then, I've added some 32 to 1 chainsaw gas, thinking "maybe" the ignition system didn't like the 30W motor oil.
May drain the gas tank today, and start over with regular 2 cycle oil. The Gray took the day off yesterday while I worked on taxes and shoveled snow :-(
Thanks for the help. |
Tom G.
Member
Username: tomfg
Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 01:51 pm: |
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Played with the Gray a little while this morning. Drain the gas tank, added fresh gas.
Cranked, cranked, and more cranking, and no fire.
Decided to try a touch of ether, and it fired up,and ran a few hits, but didn't catch hold.
Tried squirting a tad of fresh gas in the spark plug hole, and it wont fire that way. Compression seems plenty good. I do not like using ether on two cycle engines. One thing I've noticed is that the spark plug doesn't screw down into the cylinder very far, and am guessing that the electrode is half way down into the cylinder's threaded hole. Not sure if the old time plugs were tapered different, but the engine did fire on gas the first day I ever tried it, but not now. I believe I have the crankcase sealed well, so that shouldn't be an issue. Wish it had an electric starter, or that I was smart enough to get this running!
My 64 Chevy truck engine has a lot more moving parts and it's running nice. 
Will keep trying. Tom |
Tom G.
Member
Username: tomfg
Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 04:04 pm: |
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Update - For some reason, the GRAY decided to start firing after lunch, and I had it running a couple of times, and even had to abort mission once, as the engine was bouncing up and down on my work bench like it was doing an Irish jig!
Anything that wasn't screwed down on the bench soon exited to the floor. I tried adjusting the throttle and timer to find a happy spot where I thought it might stay on the bench, but it wouldn't stay running at idle. I'm pretty sure if that engine was mounted in a boat today, I would have drown after the engine knocked a hole in the bottom of the boat. Not sure how to procede from here.... maybe have to find some railroad ties to strap the Gray to.
Is it normal for these engines to buck so bad? |
miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 670
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2013 - 12:04 am: |
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Tom, your engine full of fuel, so it is firing at almost full throttle, with no load on it.
In a boat the prop will load the motor and make it run much smoother, but no question, a single cylinder engine will shake.
Eventually, you'll get the right combination of timing and throttle settling and it will bark away slowly, - yes - shake a bit but not nearly as badly as you described.
IN the mean time, some cement blocks will help keep things from jumping around too much - that's what I use.
Have a look at Ernie's video of his Gray in a boat, nicely cruising along - ( Ernie - can you provide that link?)
miro |
Tom G.
Member
Username: tomfg
Post Number: 20
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2013 - 08:51 am: |
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Miro, Now I remember early on, someone suggesting I hook a load up to the engine so it didn't jump around, ie., a squirrel cage fan or something. I'll rethink my whole mounting setup, and I do have cement blocks available for the next go around! Thanks, Tom |
Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1610
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2013 - 09:44 am: |
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Gents
Once you learn what the "U" likes it will idle perfectly with no load and nothing but its own weight to keep it in place.
Additionally once I put it in the boat it didn't run any differently. The settings that it liked just sitting there were also the same under load.
As to carbs the Krice carbs are a lot more fussy than a plain old Schlebler D. I have a couple of engines that have a Krice on them and if I want to run them I put a Schlebler on it.
Bottom line what ever you do to find out/learn what a Gray "U" likes don't get too carried away with a permanant set up. In the past I have bolted an engine to a piece of 2 x 12 and then parked my truck on the board close to the engine to keep it in place while I learned how to feed it properly.
Hope this helps
Ernie |
Tom G.
Member
Username: tomfg
Post Number: 21
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2013 - 12:52 pm: |
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Ernie, "Simple" sounds good. I've been heating the garage up all morning, so will try the engine again after lunch. Not sure what the future is for this GRAY U yet, but thanks for the tip on using Schleber carbs. |
Tom G.
Member
Username: tomfg
Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2013 - 05:48 pm: |
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I cleared everything off my workbench that has the "U" bolted down to it, and put my 139# anvil on the bench for ballast. Made a tin can muffler, and tried to start the "U" up. Flooded.
Drained the crankcase, cranked the engine over with the compression release open, etc., and still would not fire. Ended up using a little ether after pouring a little motor oil down the cylinder to lubricate. Got it firing, and had it running for for about 20 seconds. Sounds like it was bogged down, but it didn't give me enough time to try adjusting everything. Tried many more times but couldn't keep it running. Had to quit cranking..... too much pain in my elbow! Am wondering if my tin can muffler is too restrictive? Guess I can drill more holes in it and try again. The engine didn't get bucking as bad with the muffler on it. Has anyone tried adapting a Briggs and Stratton (or other type) carb to these engines for trouble shooting? |
miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro
Post Number: 673
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2013 - 09:17 pm: |
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I think 1 in Schebler carb would do the trick.
They seem to work quite well on these engines and many Grays have them.
Maybe one to the Cajun fellas could scare one up for you.
Even better, why don't you come to visit with us in March and bring it home - a good excuse to "do it".
miro |
Tom G.
Member
Username: tomfg
Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2013 - 09:50 pm: |
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Seen a Schebler on Ebay, but it looked like a flange mount. May play with the engine tomorrow after I plow snow. If I can just keep it running long enough to try a few adjustments, the Krice carb may be okay. It probably could use a new float though..... it looked homemade to me, like a bunch of cork gasket rings shellaced together. I see they sell new floats at hitandmiss, so I may get one. Awaiting my relays to make my new buzz box ignition.... that may help as well! |
Paul Gray
Senior Member
Username: paulgray
Post Number: 133
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2013 - 11:26 am: |
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Tom- Otto gas engine works has the Krice floats made from ethanol proof materials. |
Tom G.
Member
Username: tomfg
Post Number: 25
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2013 - 01:16 pm: |
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Paul, thanks for the tip on Otto gas. I knew I had seen floats available somewhere at one time. I see they have two sizes available for the Krice carbs, so I'll have to take the carb back apart and measure. |
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