| Author |
Message |
    
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 246
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 06:40 pm: | 
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I got a 6hp Gray model "R" S/N 14098 about a month ago from a friend of mine. Needs a little tender love & care but I think it will be a nice engine when I get done. This model "R" does not have the flat plate cast into the housing for a mechanical oiler. Should it have just a single oiler? I thought I seen a "R" on this forum the other day with a double drip oiler? or was that something someone added? where did the second line go to?
If anyone has a spare timer lever they would like to sell please let me know other wise I will have to reproduce one.
I will try to post some photos of the engine here in a few days. |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 249
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 08:29 pm: |
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1st oil line for the cylinder, piston, upper con-rod?
2nd oil line for the lower con-rod?
If anyone out there has photos of a good original complete Gray model "R" with out the mechanical oiler I sure could use some photo to go by. Close ups of the brass timer can, cap and lever control. Also the correct oiler or oilers. Please e-mail photos by clicking on my username to the left. Thanks in advance. |
William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 314
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 10:08 am: |
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here is the catalog cut
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 252
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 06:45 pm: |
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Thanks for posting the pics Bill. I did a search on the site and found some pics. I was hoping to get a close up photo from someone of the inside of the timer cup. maybe even a few measurements would be great. This Gray was stuck when I got it and missing a few parts. I have now got it un-stuck and the piston out. I have the brass gear driven water pump along with the shaft and timer drive gears however the timer cup appears to be homemade and is pretty crued. It had no oiler and the threaded oil passage in the cylinder was plugged. So maybe it never had a oiler was run with oil and gas mix. The one crankcase side cover is stuck on to the crankshaft real bad and I have not got it loose at this time. I have had it in the electrolysis tank for about four days and it still does not want to come loose. I will get it loose even if I have to melt the babbit out. Can you tell me where the second oil line attached? I'm guessing there must be a oil slinger ring between the crankshaft and the crankcase end cap bearing that I have not got loose yet. Although I do not see any place for a oil line. All I see is the threaded hole for the greaser. |
William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 315
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 11:37 am: |
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here are the oil lines on a S
the pump and timer
and my 6R
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William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 316
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 11:40 am: |
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timer
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William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 317
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 11:48 am: |
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another
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 257
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 01:02 pm: |
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Bill,
I looked at my timer can again and it looks just like your 6R engine. Has same type of phenolic ring for the timer housing and is missing the top cap. Is that original? If it is original I guess that would be what I need photos of.
My Gray has a boss down on the crankcase for a oil line just like the photo of your "S" model but the boss has not been drilled out and tapped and there is no oil slinger ring on the crankshaft at least on that side. I can not tell what is on the side of the crankshaft where the removable end cap and bearing is at because it is still stuck onto the shaft. I have looked at the lower con-rod journal real good and there is no oil hole however there is two oil holes in each side of the top of the lower con-rod so I do not believe this engine has a oil slinger ring or a second oil line. The threaded oil hole on the cylinder was plugged so I will assume the engine was originally setup to mix oil with the gas. Your 6R engine is just like mine with exception of the cast flat plate in the back crankcase cap where the mechanical oil would set. My 6R does not have the cast plate. Thanks again for you help. |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2334
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 07:56 pm: |
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Johnny' Gray never used a phenolic bodied timer as original equipment to my knowlege, the all brass ones in photos above were standard !
** |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 258
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 08:43 pm: |
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Richard,
Maybe these timers are after market? My timer looks just like the photo that bill has posted of the 6R Gray. I believe the black ring is some kind of layered or laminated material. My ring looks the same size as Bills but has a red-brown color to it. I would rather make one out of brass to look like the ones in the photos. Would like to have outer diameter measurement and height of brass timer can and the size of the hex nuts if possible? However if I make it look close no one would probably know the difference. |
Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1165
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 09:01 am: |
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There have been several R and S engines here in the North East with the fiber ring timer. The ones I remember fit perfectly and were hooked up to the Gray timing control. All but one of them were missing the top cover. The one with the cover on it couldn't be removed without damage. A few too many to only see this style on Gray engines of the same styles to be aftermarket. In my thinking (fwiw)Gray ran out of the normal timer and substituted this style to fill the production gap. |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2336
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 11:54 am: |
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Ernie, What you say is very pobable, Bill's engine 6R above is the only one I've seen so far, It is an early one pre 1915 ?
In 1909 O.J.Mulford sold the Gray Motor Company to United States Motors Corp and they went broke the very next year 1910.With difficulty and financial hardship Mulford bought the Co. Back again.
With serial numbers of some of these engs with Non brass timers its possible that we could determine the years they were used. none of the Gray catalogs, photo ads or parts books that I have seen show these timers. Interesting bit of Gray history to rediscover.
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William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 318
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 11:59 am: |
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here is mine, and if it is original, then this motor never had an oiler.
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2337
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 12:09 pm: |
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Thanks Bill, Is there a number stamped on the raised boss on the cylinder above the intake or on the front face of rim on the flywheel ?
* |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 260
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 01:54 pm: |
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Close up photos show Bills timer is a little different then mine. I will post some photos when I get back from the show here in Florida in about a week. Trailer is loaded just got to pack some clothes. |
William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 319
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 03:12 pm: |
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Unlike a few I have, it has a beautiful number.
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2338
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 03:32 pm: |
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That's a 6/HP model R 1912
Lets see what Johns engine is or any others that hopefully get posted ?
* |
J.B. Castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 510
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 02:28 am: |
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That's a Lockwood Ash timer, came off of a twin, one set of points removed. The lever was screwed on. |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 262
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 08:35 am: |
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JB, I bet you are correct. After looking at my timer I am now fairly sure that it has been added. What happened to the original one? Who knows.. The brass shaft coming out of the timer has been spliced with a sleeve and roll pin and a steel shaft goes up to the timer. I do not have the same type of bracket that extends to the timer like Bills. The bottom of my timer is a thin brass plate with a lever. When you find these old engines you just never know what someone else has done over the years.
Think I will make one of those purty brass timers for my engine. Anyone have a photo of the insides? |
William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 320
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 12:28 pm: |
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Here is the timer cover that came off my 6R Gray. I took it off because it was obviously wrong, and I thought it didn't fit real well.
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1166
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 07:53 am: |
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The ones that were around here in the North East were not LA or Nadler. They had an aluminum cover coned up then flat on the top middle. They did have a name on them (no I don't remember) and werre made so the Gray linkage and oiler fit normally |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2340
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 04:16 pm: |
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Sounds like a Monarch ?
I'd like to buy a few at those prices !!
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1167
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 08:02 am: |
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Richard,
Thats the one. The way the aluminum cover lapped over the edge of the fiber there would be corrosion there and the cover was just about impossible to remove without damage
Thanks
Ernie |
