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Message |
    
Bryon Bandemer
New member
Username: wydiver
Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 08:16 pm: | 
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This is my first marine engine..Need to know what it is and year.
thanks alot
Bryon
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2149
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 07:45 pm: |
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Could you post a good photo of the intake manifold side of this engine ?
* |
Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver
Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 09:47 pm: |
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I will try to get a picture soon.
I know it has a Kingston carb if that makes a difference.
thanks alot for all the help
Bryon |
Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver
Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, September 05, 2009 - 08:22 am: |
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Finally got some more pictures of the carb side.
Thanks for all the help.
Bryon
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Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver
Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 08:08 pm: |
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The intake/exhaust/water jacket are all in one.
Here are some pictures of the pistons. I have sandblasted it all and found no name or numbers.
thanks again
bryon
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Tom Stranko
Senior Member
Username: thomas
Post Number: 340
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 10:13 pm: |
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I feel bad that I have NO idea what that engine is. I bet Richard D also feels bad. What company made the water pump? I assume there is something stamped or cast on the pump somewhere? Is it possible it was a fire pumper engine with all that aluminum (for light weight?) I have to say I have not seen an older 2 cycle with a port in the piston. Is the Kingston 5 ball nickel plated?
It matches the intake manifold..looks like it's almost aluminum also. IT'S NICE
Tom |
RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2176
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:19 pm: |
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I have spent some time trying to ID this engine, the slotted piston was used by Erd on their Engines not sure what others , Erd made many different eng designs.
No ID on this one yet, it will go into my unknown engine file.
Many of my 65+ friends complain of waking up in the middle of the night can't go back to sleep and nothing to do !
I wake up and quite undisturbed research things like this until the sun comes up and then take a look at the to do list-- not as enthused about the last option as I am the first !
** |
Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 07:46 am: |
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Thanks alot for checking. I would like to know what it is, but I will get it running anyhow..Can't wait to hear it purr. I 99% positive its two stroke is that correct? I havent gone through the carb yet.
The Carb says kingston...patent applied for.
thanks again
bryon |
Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver
Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 10:21 am: |
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More info. I found one number on the carb 176148. It's the only number on the whole engine. Kingston patent applied for. The pistons have 3 rings.. the bottom rings are gone...is this critical to get to run? and where would I find replacements? I would assume that there is a place to send the whole piston and get new rings made.
Thanks again.. I hope the carb number will help date this.
Bryon |
Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver
Post Number: 13
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 09:52 pm: |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEOjINMsyeQ
Dont know what it is but got her running. Now I'm stuck...must have another marine engine. Thanks for all the help.
Bryon |
Tom Stranko
Senior Member
Username: thomas
Post Number: 343
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 04:03 pm: |
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Byron, It looks (and sounds) great running.
T |
Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1043
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 07:34 am: |
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Nice |
Keith Billet
Senior Member
Username: keith
Post Number: 260
Registered: 02-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 10:44 am: |
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Good job Bryon. You Get-er-done.
Keith |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 194
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 09:16 am: |
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Bryon,
I use to be involved with radio controlled models of all kinds for about 20 years and some of the two cycle model engines had pistons with slots or holes in them. I believe it was called snurl porting not sure if this is the correct spelling. Anyways this snurl porting improved the top end RPM for a much faster engine. Your engine maybe a racing engine. That would also explain the aluminum crankcase, aluminum intake & exhaust manifold. Light weight to help keep the boat on top of the water for speed. I do know some of the old marine engines companies made special engines for speed boats. Good to see another engine brought back to life and running. Keep up the good work.
P.S. If I remember correctly the slot in the piston was said to some how increase the speed in which the fuel was delivered into the combustion chamber or the amount of fuel. It's been a long time ago when I did the models so my memory is not that good. |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 195
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 10:15 am: |
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I was just doing a little reading on the net. It should be spelled (Schnuerle). The main difference between regular two cycle porting and schnuerle porting is the angle of the ports. Regular ports are normally 90 degrees to the cylinder. Schnuerle ports are angled up on a 45 degrees or more. This allows the fuel to be directed straight into the combustion chamber and there would be no need for a deflector on top of the piston. So maybe the slot in the piston was for something else. Anyone else out there knowledgeable about this topic? |
Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1127
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 11:56 am: |
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John,
The common term is loop scavenged. There is a ton of info on the net under that subject including lots of cross reference to Schnuerle
Almost all currnet 2 stroke engines are now loopers
Hope this helps
Ernie |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 196
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 06:12 am: |
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Ernie,
I was hoping someone might know exactly what the slots in the pistons were for? I do not know if it has anything to do with the loop scavenging? I pretty sure it has to do with performance, more top end RPM. Just trying to figure out if this is a speed boat engine for back in the day? |
Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1128
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 08:40 am: |
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John,
The slots in the pistons actually open up the bottom of the transfer ports. Most transfer ports go directly to the crankcase on the bottom end. Some manufacturers chose to route the bottom of the transfer port back into the cylinder as a port that the slot in the piston covered and uncovered. why??? Maybe the designer thought they could sort of control intake timing??? However that is really controlled by the piston uncovering the top of the transfer passage. I don't think it had anything to do with the engine being a looper or not.
Early small Lockwood Ash had piston slots Erd I think and many others.
To me it seems it only made the casting cores more complex. Maybe that is why most mfrs didn't do it. It also seems that it would be an additional restriction from the crankcse to the transfer passage. On high speed 2 strokes the transfer passage opening in the crankcase is Always positioned so crankshaft revolution helps push fuel and air into the transfer passage. That being the case just about 100 percent of all outboard motors run clockwise viewed from the flywheel. So just about 100 percent of all outboard motors have the transfer port on the starboard side.
How is that for ramblin on???
You asked
Hope this helps
Ernie |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 197
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 11:10 am: |
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Ernie,
Thanks for explaining this for me. I guess if a person was mixing two cycle oil with their fuel the slotted piston might help to better lubricate the upper con-rod and wrist pin. If I remember correctly the model engines that had schnurele porting (Loop Scavenged) also had a hole or slot in the piston on the intake side. Guess I will have to go and dig up one of my old model engines and take it apart to find out. That's just one of the things I like about this hobby, you never stop learning. Anyways maybe Bryon's engine is not for racing. |
J.B. Castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 492
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 09:02 pm: |
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It looks like the slot on this engine might be for intake timing into the crankcase. It's a three port motor, if you look at the cylinder from the rear the transfer ports are on the other side, these slots open the carb to the crankcase at the top of the stroke. Looking again the slot is on the deflector side, Ernie's got it right |
Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver
Post Number: 16
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 03:08 pm: |
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I am sorry I havent checked this lately..I have been working on my hit and miss engines and have neglected this website. I am glad for the new information on this engine. Maybe someday we will figure this out.
Thanks
Bryon |
Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver
Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, December 19, 2009 - 07:48 am: |
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I was thinking about the ports in the pistons...If I understand the previous posts it kind of seems that the pistons might be 180 out..should the slots be on the intake side or am I just crazy?
Thanks
Bryon |
Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie
Post Number: 1134
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 19, 2009 - 08:41 am: |
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If it runs they are on the correct side.
Also from looking at your pics they most likely are the opening for the bottom of the transfer port. |
John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny
Post Number: 199
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 19, 2009 - 05:02 pm: |
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Bryon, when you took the engine apart do you remember which side of the cylinder the transfer ports were on looking at the engine from the front or flywheel side?
As I think Ernie & JB have already stated that the transfer ports are on the opposite side from the intake manifold. Transfer ports are on the same side as the deflector and slot or port on the piston.
Ernie, I think you are correct about the piston slot opening for the bottom of the transfer port. Because the piston would have to be down in order to push fuel up through the transfer port. Correct? |
Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver
Post Number: 18
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Monday, January 04, 2010 - 08:04 pm: |
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I never removed the pistons, so the ports in the pistons on the opposite side from the intake manifold.
Thanks
bryon |
