| Author |
Message |
    
Chip
Visitor
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 01:22 pm: | 
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Well, thanks to all the fantastic comments previously, I had my P-60 running great for quite a while. Everything has been going really well up until last week. I set out from the dock, engine running smoothly and then she just sputtered out dead. The fuel gauge read about 1/8 tank. I had put in about 10 gallons of fuel prior to my previous run but wound up running the engine for about 5 hours or so. I would have thought 10 gallons would have gone further than that but I must have been wrong. It seems like I ran out of gas. I put another 5 gallons of gas in and the gauge still reads exactly the same level as before.
Now to my question. I cannot get the engine started now. I am wondering if there are any tricks/recommendations as to getting a Palmer started after running out of gas? I am pretty sure I have fuel flow from the tank to the carburetor... I think the fuel pump is pumping as I try to start her up. Suggestions? Thanks in advance! |
Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie
Post Number: 124
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 02:26 pm: |
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Might not have been a fuel failure. Have you replaced the ignition key switch? Did it fail after a long continuous run? |
Richard Shapiro
Member
Username: mainesails
Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 08:23 pm: |
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I wonder if the fuel jet in your carb didn't catch a piece of crud that had been hanging out in the bowl. You could take out the jets and/or clean the carb and float bowl.
I have had a similar problem, though not with my P-60 ... after a run of about 45 minutes, the engine died like I had hit the kill switch. It would re-start but die if I attempted to throttle up. It was a piece of crud in the hi-speed jet. If the jet had been completely clogged, it might not have restarted at all.
It is hard to believe that you used 2 gallons per hour in a P60. It should be possible if your propeller allows the engine to rev close to 3000 and you were running close to full throttle. However, I don't know anyone that runs a P60 or A4 that way. Under normal conditions, I would anticipate about 3 quarts per hour per hour for a normal cruise and a gallon per hour if you were flogging it.
It sounds to me like your fuel gauge might be innacurate ... which means that you might not have run out of gas to begin with.
Rich |
Douglas Swanson
Member
Username: svenskasvan
Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 01:05 am: |
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Have you checked your fuel filter?
If you have one that seperates out water it may be full of water that it has filtered from the tank so the engine is not getting any fuel.
How old was the fuel that was in the tank and was it clean?
I just drained my tank and found about a quart of water in the fuel I removed (plus a bunch of other crud). New fuel in the tank and the engine starts on the first "crank" and idles really smooth. |
Chip
Visitor
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 02:39 am: |
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Update. She is running again nice and smooth! Starts on the first crank most of the time! I have not figured out if I actually ran out of fuel or not. The gauge was reading a little over 1/8 of a tank at the time. I put in an additional 5 gallons and the gauge did not move much at all.
It turned out that my #4 cylinder had a stuck valve. As I tinkered trying to figure out the problem, I wound up pulling the spark plugs and doing a quick hand test for compression on each cylinder. They all seemed OK except #4 which had none! After a little jiggering, the valve seated and everything has been fine ever since.
I added another 10 gallons and the gauge showed a little over 3/4 full. Still not sure what is going on with the gauge but figure I will track hours of usage and try the rules of thumb Richard mentioned in an attempt to gauge usage.
I have been out probably half-a-dozen times without incident now. |
Richard Shapiro
Member
Username: mainesails
Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 07:31 am: |
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That's great! We all tend to fixate on the problems we've personally experienced, and a stuck valve isn't one I've had!
How did you jigger the valve?
Rich |
Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie
Post Number: 134
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 01:18 pm: |
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Chip,
Some mechanics that I respect suggested using Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel, especially due to the age of the engine and the marine enviorment. Trust me, I don't go for gimmick additives and usually advise against them. I became convinced from the prepondance of these suggestions that it might help and couldn't hurt. In wound up using it for several years. Seems to help. If you use it, observe the proportion guidelines |
Richard Shapiro
Member
Username: mainesails
Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 02:43 pm: |
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I've had the same advice, repeatedly, from people I trust. I've used the MMO both as a fuel additive and as my winterizing oil, for years. Maybe that's why I've not had a stuck valve?
Rich |
J.B. Castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 127
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 07:39 pm: |
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Upper cylinder lubricant used to be a hot item. Flathead engines are notorious for sticking valves, they rely on splash in the valve spring area for lube, there's usually little oil in there, especialy at low speeds. OHV engines need seals to prevent too much oil from going down the valve stems. Adding oil to the fuel helps. Marine engines are in a hostile enviroment with water in the exhaust, the exhaust valves are already dry, moisture makes things worse. My Holiday Marine Engine had a valve on the water discharge to the exhaust, shut it off and the water would bypass, allowing you to blow the manifold dry before shutdown, preventing stuck valves. |
Chip
Visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 01:55 am: |
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Thanks for the comments about MMO. I am going to give it a try again. I did use MMO when I changed the oil but have burned some over the months and put in 30 weight oil to top off. Come to think of it, the problem started very shortly after I topped off! I suspect she will appreciate a nice drink of MMO.
To answer your question about "jiggering" Richard:
I took out the spark plug and looked inside the hole. I saw one valve very clearly... partial clear view toward the aft side of the spark plug hole. I rotated the fly wheel and watched the valve. It seemed to move just fine. Figured there had to be another valve and a friend suggested that I look forward of that one. Due to the position of my engine, it is very hard to get at a good angle to see that one but once I contorted enough to get my eye positioned, I saw that there is indeed another valve just forward of the spark plug hole... not sure which is intake and which is exhaust... love to know if anyone has insight.
Anyway, I used a long "probe"... metal stick with a point... bought at Kragen... makes me think of a tool my dentist uses... oh yeah... it was labeled as a gasket tool I believe. I carefully probed and found that I could see the tip going under the valve. I then repositioned it to be on top of the valve. I still could not see the valve very well but I could see the probe moving slightly as I rotated the fly wheel by hand. I noticed that it didn't seem to be closing throughout an entire cycle. I asked a friend to rotate the fly wheel while I pushed gently on the valve. Eventually, the valve moved down and I figured it might be closed so I tried starting the engine and it started right up. She ran long enough for me to get back to my slip safely :=)
If you have more questions, feel free to ask. I will keep everyone posted on how the MMO works out. I am highly optimistic! Thanks for making me realize the error of my ways when I topped off. |
Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie
Post Number: 136
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 10:11 am: |
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How often do you change your crankcase oil? |
Richard Shapiro
Member
Username: mainesails
Post Number: 13
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 07:51 pm: |
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Thanks for letting me know! I'll have to remember that one.
I also use MMO as a fuel additive.
BTW, the answer section of the Moyer Marine website is also wonderful for this kind of question, as the A4 is darned similar. Almost all the advice that is not "part specific" applies equally to P60s as it does to A4s.
I'm somewhat surprised that the engine wouldn't start with a stuck valve. Normally, one of these engines will start just fine on three cylinders. It just won't develop normal power. |
William DiLibero
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2007 - 10:17 pm: |
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I believe I have a Palmer 27 horse engine in my Catalina 27 1972 sailboat. I was in the boat with it docked running the engine when the engine just died on me.
We spent the afternoon working on it. It still turns over. It appears to be getting a spark. We changed the gas filter, took off the air filter and we still can't get it to start up.
We have drained the carborator but have not taken it off to clean or inspect it.
Reading this thread, I am starting to think it may be a stuck valve.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks, Bill |
